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The Cast => Celtic Woman => Topic started by: hesprit on December 07, 2009, 11:42PM



Title: What has happened to us?
Post by: hesprit on December 07, 2009, 11:42PM


When I first found the Celtic Woman Forum, a couple years ago, I was thrilled to become a part of a group of people who wanted nothing more than to share our joy and love for an amazing group of performers.  People talked of the things we loved about Celtic woman, about the ladies as a group, about the indivicuals, about the music itself .. we shared our experiences, but most of all, we shared our support for those who were giving so much of themselves, for our benefit.

That has always been a standard here, to offer support, to enjoy what we've been given, and to encourage  the spread of Celtic Woman fans everywhere.

I'm sorry to say that I'm becoming discouraged lately.  More and more I keep reading threads and posts that are critical of CW Ltd and of the work being done.  Instead of enjoying the new show and the new DVD/CD it seems that people want to complain because they aren't done the way "WE" think they should be.

Folks, I'm sorry, but we are not the professionals here.  We don't know why some songs are left off and others are included, but we need to trust that there ARE reasons, and that these decisions are being made with the best interests of Celtic Woman as a whole in mind.

Another thought we should be considering, we know that members of Celtic Woman occasionally take a look at this forum, they sometimes read the things we are saying.  They do this because they are interested, they care about us, their fans.  Have we thought about the impressions we might be giving the girls with some of our comments?  One in particular, how might we be making Alex and Lynn feel, if they happen to read us talking about them being left out, or it appearing they are "lesser members" of the group?

I guess what I don't understand is the way it seems people have started to believe Celtci Woman, and more accurately, CW Ltd., must owe us something.  Why do we feel like we should be able to tell them what is right or wrong? 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people shouldn't be able to express their opinions here, I just wonder if we are losing sight of the joys and pleasures that brought us all here in the first place.

Maybe this is just rambling, and maybe others don't see it the same way.  I just felt like it was a question that might help us.

Peter


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Life is Great! on December 07, 2009, 11:52PM
I have a lot I could say about this post, but "AMEN" will just do for now.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: shankdee on December 08, 2009, 03:56AM
 :D Peter, you may have a point or two but your comments are along the line of the ones you are saying are not
    "right"...everyone is entitled to miss a song or two, and I don't think anyone here is trying to tell CW LTD what to do.
     Our moderators will remove any objectionable content in any thread which is not welcomed...I know becaue a
     comment or two of mine has been excoriated....with a very gentle explanation from a moderator.
     We all broke into applause when Lisa began to sing the "Voice " in Pasadena and it is sad to some of us that
     this song may be retired...THE VOICE is what has won over so many, many fans to C W.... I just finished
     reading a WONDERFUL review of an ORLA concert, a forum gathering, and even with pictures. I have only
     been on the Forum for one year....but I see all kinds of wonderful positve things...people who are willing
     to answer any question someone may have...So the group I am reading has nothing but praise and admiration
     and love for ALEX and Lynn, everyone I know is crazy about them and their incredible talent.  We are still loyal
     to Meav, Hayley, Diedre and Orla as it should be. I have learned so much about songs such as Mo Ghile Mear
     so much about Ireland, and kept up with current news..I think the forum rocks and that we have the
     BEST moderators to build upon our love and admiration for C W, and I felt tremendous support for the Isle of Hope
     Tour which recently ended....it was over ALL TOO SOON....
      I appreciate your viewpoint but I don't agree with all of it...Accentuate the Positive and Elminate the negative..!!!

shankdee


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Mel on December 08, 2009, 04:23AM
Unfortunately Peter, this is a public forum, so anyone can come and post their opinions, good or bad.

I can't speak for everyone, but I know MOST of us are THRILLED WITH THE NEW SHOW!! I am!!! Yes wonder why some songs were dropped, but again, CW Ltd and even David may have a reason. Might not have fit with the show. I for one would love to at least have the song Have I Told You Lately on a CD, and hopefully they will still included it in the Tour of SFTH. But if not, I am not going to off in a huff and just drop my love of CW.

I also understand there are time constants with doing videos and Tours. You only have so much time and so  have to pick the songs that will be suit the show and tour. I can live that. I know others can too.

Those who keep condeming or being critical of CW Ltd are just spoiled, and what everything their way.

It AIN'T gonna happen people. It's not about one individual fan. It's about what will draw in EVERYONE!


As for THIS CW FAN...I AIN'T GOING NO WHERE...I AM IN THIS FOREVER!!!  ;D


Mel aka Troublemaker#1


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: OldFatGuy on December 08, 2009, 08:21AM
Moderating this forum is a difficult task, and that's the reason why we are so careful and selective about choosing moderators.  We allow some posts that might be seen as critical, while editing or deleting others.  But there's a method to our madness.

Some of our members have posted their issues with the actual presentation of the CW show; lighting, staging, gowns, song selection, solos or group numbers that were omitted (or included), etc.  As long as they are respectful, we believe CW has a right to hear these opinions.  They're in business to appeal to their fan base, and we represent that fan base.  What better place is there than a large fan forum for CW Ltd to tune in and get honest feedback from their paying clientele?  If anything, I feel they are almost obligated to take such criticism seriously.

But we draw the line at posts that are openly critical of the performers themselves.  They - the soloists, choir members and musicians - do read our posts, and they are human.  On more than one occasion I've learned that a performer's feelings were hurt by something that was said here.  We walk a fine line.  The producers can add a new solo if they want; it's far more difficult for the soloist to change her voice or her personality.  They are individuals with different talents and styles, and none of them are ever going to please every fan every night.  It's a matter of taste.  If you want to say that you enjoy Dougie MacLean's performance of Caledonia more than Lisa's, that's fine.  But if you want to say that Lisa doesn't have a good voice or stage presence, that's over the line and will probably be edited or removed.

Sometimes I miss the days when we were a small, rather intimate collection of a couple of hundred rabid fans and CW could do no wrong.  We are now a large and growing global community, and there are bound to be some wildly divergent opinions in a "group" with over 1800 members.  Originally, we had only the Helix concert and the first five soloists.  We loved the show and worshipped the girls.  Then along came ANJ and, for the first time, we had that dreaded word - change.  The set list changed.  Hayley was in, then she was out.  Méav was in, then she was out.  And there was much screaming and weeping and gnashing of teeth.  Now we've seen new songs, new gowns, new staging and *shudder* new performers.  Celtic Woman is a victim of their own success.  In order to pay their bills, they've had to add new songs and remove some of our old favorites.  They've had to replace some people who have chosen to go in a new direction.  As a result, they've given us a basis for comparison that we didn't have before.  And not all comparisons are going to be favorable.  That's life.

So here's your ground rule.  If you feel the need to post some constructive criticism about the CW production, we will probably allow it (as long as it's truly respectful and relevant; when in doubt, send one of us a PM).  But if you go after one of the girls - Alex, Chloë, Deirdre, Hayley, Lisa, Lynn, Máiréad, Méav and Órlagh - you are treading on very thin ice.  They are like family to us, and we will protect them like a mama lion protects her cubs.

Sorry if I rambled.  But Peter's candid and insightful post gave me a chance to air a few things I've had on my mind.  Thanks for reading.

Rich

off topic p.s.  If you feel your constitutional rights have been violated in any way - you signed away those rights when you agreed to be bound by our membership rules.  This forum is privately owned and administered, and you do not have the right to say anything you want, either in posts or in the chat room.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Zo on December 08, 2009, 08:34AM
Moderating this forum is a difficult task, and that's the reason why we are so careful and selective about choosing moderators.  We allow some posts that might be seen as critical, while editing or deleting others.  But there's a method to our madness.

So here's your ground rule.  If you feel the need to post some constructive criticism about the CW production, we will probably allow it (as long as it's truly respectful and relevant; when in doubt, send one of us a PM).  But if you go after one of the girls - Alex, Chloë, Deirdre, Hayley, Lisa, Lynn, Máiréad, Méav and Órlagh - you are treading on very thin ice.  They are like family to us, and we will protect them like a mama lion protects her cubs.

AMEN.  Constructive criticism is good for the soul but disrespectful criticism is only hallow and cheap. This is why we have the best monderators ever to watch out over the girls and watch out for all of us forum members. I have the greatest respect for them and they do a great job. If CW didn't change their songs now and again everyone would get bored with it. I like change...change is good  :D  and they could sing Row, Row, Row Your Boat and I would love it!  ;D


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: bobh56 on December 08, 2009, 08:40AM
Moderating this forum is a difficult task, and that's the reason why we are so careful and selective about choosing moderators.  We allow some posts that might be seen as critical, while editing or deleting others.  But there's a method to our madness.

Some of our members have posted their issues with the actual presentation of the CW show; lighting, staging, gowns, song selection, solos or group numbers that were omitted (or included), etc.  As long as they are respectful, we believe CW has a right to hear these opinions.  They're in business to appeal to their fan base, and we represent that fan base.  What better place is there than a large fan forum for CW Ltd to tune in and get honest feedback from their paying clientele?  If anything, I feel they are almost obligated to take such criticism seriously.

But we draw the line at posts that are openly critical of the performers themselves.  They - the soloists, choir members and musicians - do read our posts, and they are human.  On more than one occasion I've learned that a performer's feelings were hurt by something that was said here.  We walk a fine line.  The producers can add a new solo if they want; it's far more difficult for the soloist to change her voice or her personality.  They are individuals with different talents and styles, and none of them are ever going to please every fan every night.  It's a matter of taste.  If you want to say that you enjoy Dougie MacLean's performance of Caledonia more than Lisa's, that's fine.  But if you want to say that Lisa doesn't have a good voice or stage presence, that's over the line and will probably be edited or removed.

Sometimes I miss the days when we were a small, rather intimate collection of a couple of hundred rabid fans and CW could do no wrong.  We are now a large and growing global community, and there are bound to be some wildly divergent opinions in a "group" with over 1800 members.  Originally, we had only the Helix concert and the first five soloists.  We loved the show and worshipped the girls.  Then along came ANJ and, for the first time, we had that dreaded word - change.  The set list changed.  Hayley was in, then she was out.  Méav was in, then she was out.  And there was much screaming and weeping and gnashing of teeth.  Now we've seen new songs, new gowns, new staging and *shudder* new performers.  Celtic Woman is a victim of their own success.  In order to pay their bills, they've had to add new songs and remove some of our old favorites.  They've had to replace some people who have chosen to go in a new direction.  As a result, they've given us a basis for comparison that we didn't have before.  And not all comparisons are going to be favorable.  That's life.

So here's your ground rule.  If you feel the need to post some constructive criticism about the CW production, we will probably allow it (as long as it's truly respectful and relevant; when in doubt, send one of us a PM).  But if you go after one of the girls - Alex, Chloë, Deirdre, Hayley, Lisa, Lynn, Máiréad, Méav and Órlagh - you are treading on very thin ice.  They are like family to us, and we will protect them like a mama lion protects her cubs.

Sorry if I rambled.  But Peter's candid and insightful post gave me a chance to air a few things I've had on my mind.  Thanks for reading.

Rich

off topic p.s.  If you feel your constitutional rights have been violated in any way - you signed away those rights when you agreed to be bound by our membership rules.  This forum is privately owned and administered, and you do not have the right to say anything you want, either in posts or in the chat room.

Thank you, Rich.  I couldn't have said it better.  And, now that you did, I don't have to.



Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: edtom on December 08, 2009, 08:50AM
Very well said Rich.
For the record: I like Songs From the Heart, and like it more and more each time I see it. I don't think it's unconstructive to say that I miss a couple songs that could (and I think should) be included.
I have been a member of this forum for almost two years now, and I try (not always successfully) to post only positive comments. Looking back, I can think of a few instances where I've said things that I wish I hadn't.
The bottom line: I love Celtic Woman, and I love all the cast members, past and present.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: zankoku on December 08, 2009, 08:59AM
When ever I see comments about a "new performer" or new songs and the old ones not being done, I remember the song Garden Party by Rickie Nelson.

I went to a garden party to reminisce with my old friends
A chance to share old memories and play our songs again
When I got to the garden party, they all knew my name
No one recognized me, I didn't look the same


Someone opened up a closet door and out stepped Johnny B. Goode
Playing guitar like a-ringin' a bell and lookin' like he should
If you gotta play at garden parties, I wish you a lotta luck
But if memories were all I sang, I rather drive a truck



A performer has to continue to change both in their performance and teh songs they sing. Listening to the old songs, well that is what CDs are for.

I have only been to one show but have all the cds and DVDs. I look forward to the new CD and DVD


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: lifeismusic2009 on December 08, 2009, 09:05AM
Very well said Rich. I am sure I have said things that I wish I hadn't, but I truly love Celtic Woman and would never intentionally hurt ANY of the girls!!!!!!
And Zo, I think they could rock Row, Row, Row, Your Boat  :D :D


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Zo on December 08, 2009, 10:58AM
Very well said Rich. I am sure I have said things that I wish I hadn't, but I truly love Celtic Woman and would never intentionally hurt ANY of the girls!!!!!!
And Zo, I think they could rock Row, Row, Row, Your Boat  :D :D

Yeah, that's why I said they could sing it and I'd love it ;D  (I hate that song ... lol)


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: thedoctor on December 08, 2009, 11:22AM
I agree with what most people are saying about posting opinions that might disagree with the popular "accepted" view of the group. People can be critical of things without attacking people personally. People have different experiences with Celtic Woman and its members and supporting teams. I think that people should be heard as long as the posts are not personal attacks.

I love Celtic Woman and have since they first came out. I have seen members come and go. I have my personal favorites as do we all. Yet, I have not had the personal glowing experiences with the women of the group as others might have had. I have not been able to meet the girls in person and some of the contact I have had with members of Celtic Woman (past and present) have not been the most heart-felt experiences as others have said theirs were in the forum. It does not have any impact on my love for the talent of the group. The women are human.  

One thing we have to remember is that they are human just like us. They have beliefs and thoughts and express them in ways that some might like and some might not. Maybe I caught them on a bad day or series of bad days or they just dont like me ( I am not easy to get along with). That does not make me want to say bad things about them. I have respect for them and think their image is a positive influence in society. I think that people should hear less positive stories as well so that we remain balanced in our views.

You may disagree with what people say but you should respect it as long as it is done in a way that is not personal attacks and have some substance behind it. Debate an issue, ask questions but do not dismiss anyones post (positive or negative) just because you do not agree or feel that the forum has degraded because of it. It is up to the moderators but I think that a balance of the postive and not so positive should be maintained as long as some rules are followed.

-thedoctor

 


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Kevin R.I. on December 08, 2009, 12:03PM
Rich, you have one of the toughest jobs going.....administrator/diplomat. I don`tknow if President Obama could handle it any better.Mild ...and I emphasize that word...critisism of lighting or sound can be tolerated as it will let CW LTD try to improve things for the better. If any member doesn`t appreciate the extraordinary and immense talents of all CW ladies , past and present maybe they should look for other forums. It seems that 99% of the members  here absolutely love our Celtic Ladies.  They`re more wonderful in person  than can be explained. Their Pbs specials are wonderful. I love hearing new numbers that will become old favorites in time.I`ve seen SFTH  8 times in the past week and can`t wait to see it again.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Emily! on December 08, 2009, 12:21PM
off topic p.s.  If you feel your constitutional rights have been violated in any way - you signed away those rights when you agreed to be bound by our membership rules.  This forum is privately owned and administered, and you do not have the right to say anything you want, either in posts or in the chat room.

Oh please tell me there aren't people who actually make the "BUT IT'S FREE SPEECH IN THE ~*~CONSTITUTION~*~!!!" argument on a privately owned internet message board. Please tell me there isn't that much ignorance in this world, lol.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: BlueFawn on December 08, 2009, 12:48PM
off topic p.s.  If you feel your constitutional rights have been violated in any way - you signed away those rights when you agreed to be bound by our membership rules.  This forum is privately owned and administered, and you do not have the right to say anything you want, either in posts or in the chat room.

Oh please tell me there aren't people who actually make the "BUT IT'S FREE SPEECH IN THE ~*~CONSTITUTION~*~!!!" argument on a privately owned internet message board. Please tell me there isn't that much ignorance in this world, lol.


LOL  I wish you could be in my Intro American classes when we get to the civil liberties section.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Bluefire on December 08, 2009, 12:51PM
Some of our members have posted their issues with the actual presentation of the CW show; lighting, staging, gowns, song selection, solos or group numbers that were omitted (or included), etc.  As long as they are respectful, we believe CW has a right to hear these opinions.  

But we draw the line at posts that are openly critical of the performers themselves.  They - the soloists, choir members and musicians - do read our posts, and they are human.  On more than one occasion I've learned that a performer's feelings were hurt by something that was said here.  We walk a fine line.  The producers can add a new solo if they want; it's far more difficult for the soloist to change her voice or her personality.  They are individuals with different talents and styles, and none of them are ever going to please every fan every night.  It's a matter of taste.

The girls give the audience everything they have each night.  No matter your preference of styles or music, each person can at the very least admire and respect that.  The fact that each girl brings something distinctly different to the table is a big part of what makes Celtic Woman such the success it has been.  It makes the show as a whole fuller and richer.  If you do not care for a portion of the show, fine... that's your prerogative.  However, to publicly criticize these performers (as the forums can be generally read by anyone) will not change the things that concern you... it only hurts feelings.  Perhaps to word that better... I don't think anyone will fault for saying "I didn't care for this, and here's why" as it allows discussion and seeing another point of view.  However, if you instead say "I hate this, what were they thinking doing this?", then you're just putting out negativity in a non-constructive way.  Hopefully I'm being clear.
  
Originally, we had only the Helix concert and the first five soloists.  We loved the show and worshipped the girls.  Then along came ANJ and, for the first time, we had that dreaded word - change.  The set list changed.  Hayley was in, then she was out.  Méav was in, then she was out.  And there was much screaming and weeping and gnashing of teeth.  Now we've seen new songs, new gowns, new staging and *shudder* new performers.  Celtic Woman is a victim of their own success.  In order to pay their bills, they've had to add new songs and remove some of our old favorites.  They've had to replace some people who have chosen to go in a new direction.  As a result, they've given us a basis for comparison that we didn't have before.  And not all comparisons are going to be favorable.  That's life.

There was a similar trend among the Cirque du Soleil fandom as more shows came out.  The earlier shows were considered groundbreaking and moving. As more shows were made and different directions, a number of people bemoaned these experiments while others cheered the attempts at something new.  There have been numerous comparisons between what was and what is.  With any show or concert, it's a very fine line to walk between what has worked before or trying something new... and as Rich pointed out, no matter what is done, it will not please everyone.  

The view I personally take on this is you really can't make direct comparisons between the old and the new.  Each special was directed by someone different.  Each subsequent show allowed the group to review itself and decide what they'd like to try next time... be it song choice, lighting, ensemble, camera angle, etc.  The same is true of each of the artists themselves.  To repeat again, each one is an individual, in singing style and personality.  There was no replacing in Celtic Woman... it was bringing in new and wonderful talent as others chose a different path... creating a new dynamic rather than filling something missing.  It is change, yes... but change is one of the few constants in life.

So here's your ground rule.  If you feel the need to post some constructive criticism about the CW production, we will probably allow it (as long as it's truly respectful and relevant; when in doubt, send one of us a PM).  But if you go after one of the girls - Alex, Chloë, Deirdre, Hayley, Lisa, Lynn, Máiréad, Méav and Órlagh - you are treading on very thin ice.

A good rule for any to follow.  We can all have our opinions, and have differing ones at that... but should always be considerate in how we express them.  


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Emily! on December 08, 2009, 01:03PM
LOL  I wish you could be in my Intro American classes when we get to the civil liberties section.

Uh oh, LOL.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: The Quiet Man on December 08, 2009, 01:40PM
I agree with 98% of what has been posted here, although I for one DON’T miss the earlier days when CW could do no wrong.  I believe that this site, and others like it, do not exist to be mindless rah-rah for the artists and I am glad that the leadership seems to agree with that.  I came from a site for another artist, who shall remain nameless, where, as more people asked questions and raised legitimate concerns, the leadership clamped down tighter and tighter on any post that was seen as critical or negative.  Eventually that forum became a ghost town, occupied only by the leadership and a few hangers-on.

CW and its members are thankfully discreet, so we don’t have to worry about behind-the-scenes drama or personal behavior issues.  However, discussion of choice of music, arrangements, performance details, and so on, as long as it’s done in a non-cruel manner, I think is fair game and in fact healthy.  We’re consumers.  CW is selling us a product.  We are well within our rights to tell the manufacturer what we want in our products and what kind of products we want to see down the road.  If enough people tell them they want this product or that product, they should listen.  CW and its members are mortal, they are capable of making mistakes, and I believe it is all right to put up the caution flag if you honestly believe you need to do it.  We do no one anyone any favors if we say something is great if that’s not our honest belief. 

Tearing into the individual women is a fruitless exercise.  They are who they are and their voices are what they are.  In the end Dave Kavanaugh, Scott Porter, David Downes and the other powers that be get to decide who they hire and fire.  I’m an employment attorney and personnel decisions are one of the last business decisions that are not required to be transparent, and rightly so.  It’s a fact of any musical group that people come and go, and a fact of any show, which is what CW really is, that soloists get switched in and out.  This may be for any reason, no reason, or a personal reason that they CAN’T reveal, because it would polarize the fans or embarrass someone unnecessarily.  That’s why we really shouldn’t dig into the reasons behind those changes, although instability might be a fair question.  We’re allowed to have our faves, and allowed to believe this or that particular grouping was best, but we need to be careful how we phrase that belief so as not to deny anyone fair consideration.

The leadership here has been by and large fair since this forum started to expand, and I think two of the wisest decisions they made were to disallow “back seat moderating” so as to discourage members going after each other, and to not utilize “stealth moderating” where someone’s status as a mod is hidden and messages sometimes get sent using a name like “TeamCWF” so you don’t know who it is who’s bringing the hammer down.  These are two practices that are certain to lead to a toxic culture.

Rich is largely right in his statement about free speech, but just to build on that a little, speaking as a lawyer, here’s where the misunderstanding usually comes in: the First Amendment provides that CONGRESS shall make no laws abridging the freedom of speech, etc.  That means government can’t interfere with free speech, although it can set rules for time, place, manner, etc.  Private organizations, on the other hand, which includes malls, bookstores, AND websites, can set whatever rules they want.  That’s why malls can prohibit demonstrations whereas they can’t be prohibited on Main Street (though they can be regulated), and websites like freerepublic and democraticunderground can keep out those of the opposite political persuasion, and other sites can say political discussions aren’t allowed.  If you want access, you have to agree to follow the rules, and that’s usually spelled out before you are allowed to be a member.  If you break the agreement, then you can be removed.  That’s why you should read it before you agree to it.                         


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: thedoctor on December 08, 2009, 02:12PM
"However, discussion of choice of music, arrangements, performance details, and so on, as long as it’s done in a non-cruel manner, I think is fair game and in fact healthy."

I have to agree.

"although I for one DON’T miss the earlier days when CW could do no wrong.  I believe that this site, and others like it, do not exist to be mindless rah-rah for the artists and I am glad that the leadership seems to agree with that. "

I especially agree with this phrase and how it was put. I think there is a deeper issue that needs to be addressed. This will no doubt be slightly controversial but if we are not allowed to share our negative or not so positive opinions or experiences (as long as they are done tastefully and not target any one person or be very specific about something as to reveal identities) then we take away from the aspect that the girls are still human. To deny that they can do no wrong is treading on some dangerous thinking and behavior. I think that being reminded that the whole "Celtic Woman" thing is still a human creation and can make mistakes gives people a more realistic idea and balance in their love for the group so as not to be blind devotion. The moderators have done a great job in moderating behavior in the forum and the people in the forum have behaved themselves for the most part. Hard-line wording such as "Mild ...and I emphasize that word...critisism of lighting or sound can be tolerated " can make some people feel uneasy and not make them express some disappointment or something that happened to them. Maybe someone in the forum can provide a reason or an explanation for what happened to that person or just debate the issues over what production they liked better provided it hosts with a modicum of decorum.

I like the forum and they way that the moderators handle it. They do a good job of it. It is great that we are all fans of Celtic Woman but we have to remain balanced in our love for the group and remember that they are human. People can be hurt emotionally and extreme cases physically from a loss of reality in their love for a group, party, etc. It is healthy to show both sides of things.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: L.A. Girl on December 08, 2009, 04:15PM
I liked SDS and At the Ceili so much that I originally was determined not to like SFTH. WRONG!!!  I've grown to enjoy it so much that I keep on watching the songs on Youtube over and over again. I bought my ticket for the L.A. concert the first day pledges were accepted, and  realize that it  is better to have an open mind and not pre-judge anything. We still have The Helix Concert, ANJ, and The Christmas Concert on DVD, and they will always be considered treasures.

Dianne



Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Iluvcelticwoman on December 08, 2009, 05:55PM
i couldnt agree more with you guys!!!


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Natalia on December 08, 2009, 06:08PM
I do agree with alot that has been said!
I do think we should respect the choices of CW Ltd, but also, they should read what we have to say about songs not being on the CD/DVD because CW wouldn't be what they are without us. Sure, it's the vocalists/musicans who touch us with their amazing talent. But we're the ones who bought the CD's,DVDs,tickets to the shows, etc. I do think the Ltd should consider the things we like/dislike, because I'm sure they want their success to continue.

However, I don't think our disagreements have pulled us away from CW. Sure, alot of people would like Carolina Rua and other songs to be on the CD or DVD, but that hasn't seemed to be stopping us from logging on to the forum nearly everyday and listening to their music regularly.
We can't get everything we want, and just think about it, it could be much worse. They could be cutting 5 songs rather than 3.
We should be happy with what we get.
I'm personally not going to cut to conclusions until a copy of the CD/DVD is in my hands.

I personally love SFTH. I think it was a wonderful show and I look forward to buying my copies in January. Despite of a few missing songs. Just because they may not be on the CD/DVD, dosen't mean they won't be on the tour.

Freedom of speech is an important thing, and we can say whatever we want outside the forum.
But on here, we should keep most negative comments(espeically about the girls), to ourselves.
I for one, apologize for any comment I've made that was negative to the girls or the Ltd.



Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Emily! on December 08, 2009, 06:37PM
The way I feel about this whole topic is this: Constructive criticism is good and differing viewpoints are good, but if you're getting to the point where you're attacking and belittling the performers, you need to take a step back.

Personally, I've seen a lot of things get out of hand with the CW forum community. I've seen forum people attacking and threatening other forum people, attacking CW Ltd., and spreading lies and rumors about members and current/former CW performers.

There's only one thing I'm going to say about this (at the risk of getting harrassed again): If you're getting to the point where doing those things is important to you and makes you feel good about yourself for whatever sick reason, you need to take a step back, look in the mirror and examine your life. If an internet forum and/or a music group is the most important/valid/meaningful thing in your life, good Lord, please get some help. You are taking this stuff entirely too seriously. There is more to life than this.

In other words, let's just chill, be nice to each other, and ENJOY THE MUSIC!!! That's what we're here for to begin with. If you don't like somebody, then fine, but leave it at that. We're here because we love these girls and the music they make.

Disclaimer: This message brought to you by the Department of Emily. NO ONE TOLD ME TO WRITE THIS, no one encouraged me to do so, etc. These are my thoughts as an independent, intelligent woman.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Natalia on December 08, 2009, 06:42PM
Very well said Emily!


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Cash on December 08, 2009, 08:04PM
The way I feel about this whole topic is this: Constructive criticism is good and differing viewpoints are good, but if you're getting to the point where you're attacking and belittling the performers, you need to take a step back.
This is true. Others have also said something like this in their posts on this thread, and its very true that 'free' speech doesnt give you license to say or do whatever you want. You still have to be polite, use appropriate language, etc. You cant call people inappropriate names, or attack people, those sorts of things. You cant yell fire in a crowded theatre, that would lead to....Trouble  :D

There's only one thing I'm going to say about this (at the risk of getting harrassed again): If you're getting to the point where doing those things is important to you and makes you feel good about yourself for whatever sick reason, you need to take a step back, look in the mirror and examine your life. If an internet forum and/or a music group is the most important/valid/meaningful thing in your life, good Lord, please get some help. You are taking this stuff entirely too seriously. There is more to life than this.
I agree, but I also have a slightly different angle to it. I think the same is true for the CW perspective to us. For example, if I say "Person X sings song Y better than Person Z" should that really upset them that a schmuck like me says that? (assuming I dont use crude langauge, or attack , etc) They are, after all, performers. I would think they have to have thick skins to be in the business. Again, thats not an excuse for anyone to abuse them, there is no excuse for rude behaviour. Yet I also think they know that they are talented, beautiful, blessed, and likely wealthy (assuming they have decent financial advisors and a properly diversified portfolio. )

Disclaimer: This message brought to you by the Department of Emily. NO ONE TOLD ME TO WRITE THIS, no one encouraged me to do so, etc. These are my thoughts as an independent, intelligent woman.
Dont underestimate Jedi mind control and the Masons   :D

Rich is largely right in his statement about free speech, but just to build on that a little, speaking as a lawyer, here’s where the misunderstanding usually comes in: the First Amendment provides that CONGRESS shall make no laws abridging the freedom of speech, etc.  That means government can’t interfere with free speech, although it can set rules for time, place, manner, etc.  Private organizations, on the other hand, which includes malls, bookstores, AND websites, can set whatever rules they want.  That’s why malls can prohibit demonstrations whereas they can’t be prohibited on Main Street (though they can be regulated), and websites like freerepublic and democraticunderground can keep out those of the opposite political persuasion, and other sites can say political discussions aren’t allowed.  If you want access, you have to agree to follow the rules, and that’s usually spelled out before you are allowed to be a member.  If you break the agreement, then you can be removed.  That’s why you should read it before you agree to it.     
Hmmm yes, BUT....
Could we argue that Rich IS a government actor? Also a Corporate actor? Probabaly not, but I think we could make a better argument than one might think. .....Denny Crane  <I can hear the Boston Legal theme song playing lol >    :D

I am not going to post it here though, getting a bit off topic, so maybe send in PM a little later.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: hesprit on December 09, 2009, 12:18AM
I just want to clarify something about my original post because it seems like I may have given the wrong impression with it.

Let me start off by saying that I love Celtic Woman and I love this forum!  I'm in my mid 40s and, before CW, I had never been a member of a fan club for a musical group in my life.  I've been a fan, but never committed enough to sign up.  I had never paid to attend a concert, although I had gone to free performances, and I certainly supported performers by buying the music I like.  With Celtic Woman, something just touched me inside, in a way that had not happened before.  I've become a total fan.  I've gone to concerts, and since I'm on a very fixed income, some of these have cost close to a month's income with tickets, M&G, travel, hotel, etc.  I have no problem with doing this, I work things out to make it possible, because this group, and the pleasure I get from them, is worth it to me.

As far as my original post, I am not saying that people shouldn't be allowed to express their opinions on the forums here, I think this is a great place to do that.  As Rich said, it's a good reflection for those of CW Ltd. to judge how they are doing their jobs in promoting the girls.  I also was not trying to criticize this forum, or the staff/mods in any way.  I know from experience how tough their job is, and I think they all do a great one! 

What I was trying to express was my own, personal, reaction to the way some things were being commented on.  I had been reading comments that talked about unfair treatment of different performers and about snubbing one city/country/culture to give unfair preference to another in scheduling.  I had seen posts that talked about writing protests and which basically demanded that CW Ltd., EMI, etc., explain themselves to us, that they had better have a good reason for not doing everything in a specific way.  Some of these posts were in the form of constructive criticism and were simply expressing a desire for a particular song or video.  That's fantastic, and it's good for the powers that be.  Some posts, though, at least to me, were getting a bit harsh.

I simply can't see anything constructive in accusing the people producing the SFTH DVD/CD of treating Alex or Lynn badly, just because a certain song wasn't included ... and yes, some of the posts I have read WERE accusations!  To put it simply, we do not know why these decisions were made, and we don't have to know.  I look at it like this, if I wanted to be the one making all those decisions, then I better be the one fronting the production money, or I'd better be "in the business" and so good at it that I was hired to do the job.  Since I am neither, I will wait for the finished product and I will enjoy it as it is provided.  I'll have my favorite parts, we all will, and I'm sure there will be things I miss in it, but I'll trust that there are reasons they weren't included, and hope for the next time.  It leaves me something to look forward to, after all.  And yes, I will continue to look forward to the next concert, the next CD, the next DVD ... I look forward to all of it continuing for a long time to come!


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: hesprit on December 09, 2009, 12:48AM
Accentuate the Positive and Elminate the negative..!!!

shankdee

That's actually what I was trying to point out.  Posts that accuse and demand were not bringing the positive aspects out, and it just felt ... wrong to be seeing an increase in them.



As for THIS CW FAN...I AIN'T GOING NO WHERE...I AM IN THIS FOREVER!!!  ;D


Mel aka Troublemaker#1

Mel, if this makes you a troublemaker, then sign me up cuz I'll be one too!


off topic p.s.  If you feel your constitutional rights have been violated in any way - you signed away those rights when you agreed to be bound by our membership rules.  This forum is privately owned and administered, and you do not have the right to say anything you want, either in posts or in the chat room.

Oh please tell me there aren't people who actually make the "BUT IT'S FREE SPEECH IN THE ~*~CONSTITUTION~*~!!!" argument on a privately owned internet message board. Please tell me there isn't that much ignorance in this world, lol.


*lol*  Sadly, Emily, I've seen that argument raised more times than I can count.  It's almost funny sometimes.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: shankdee on December 09, 2009, 02:21AM
 :D HI Peter, that well may be true since we are now 1,800 strong according to RICH. So those types of comments may
     have increased, however, I meant do NOT accentuate them...ignore them...dwell on the wonderful accolades, kudos,
     praises and outpourings of love for Celtic Woman. But as I said some of your points were valid. For instance,
     in one of my London theater seminars...our Leader...who was a Bigshot in BBC...asked everyone to think
     of something bad said about them and jot it down...( he was timing this)..we didn't know it...then he asked everyone
     to write down something good that had been said about them....TIME"S up ! he said. half of the table could not think
     of anything good, but every single person had written a "bad"comment. He said the bad sticks with you...he was trying
     show how the bad comments had a life of their own and people had assimilated them in their minds, whereas..if given
     more time most would have come up with the good also...He proved his point with the group studying London theater
     to take caution when being critical of others in the show business realm. So, you may be right about too many
     negative comments...but DON"T listen to them, discard them, and trust the moderators to elminate the really
     detrimental ones-we can alway PM a moderator also to let them know what we think. That's what I mean
     by accentuate the positive...eliminate the negative.....speaking about the comments AFTER they are in print, and I
     think you were calling on the FORUM to accentuate the positive in the FIRST place and stop the NEGATIVE
     comments BEFORE they arrive in print....right?? They are truly a wonderful, gifted group of exciting singers
     and muscians and I whole heartedly believe they are supported by their ever-growing world of fans...!!!
     I have seen a few of those comments you called attention to, and didn't even pay them any mind,,,just went right on
     seeing all the GOOD ones...Thanks for the reminder, tho' "the bad sticks like glue" ....and we should avoid it all costs....
     ***** ***** *****  C S



Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: SusanZ on December 09, 2009, 11:02AM
Let's all watch the CW Christmas DVD or listen to the Christmas CD and enjoy the beauty and the talent that is Celtic Woman. That will put us in the spirit!  ;) :)

We have been given a gift that continues to amaze and delight us everytime we see CW perform live, listen to a new recording, or watch a new DVD. The girls give us 100% in every project they work on.

I have no problem with differences of opinion but when that difference crosses the line and starts attacking, it's time to say "whoa". I think we can all agree to disagree without getting out of line.

The moderating team, I feel, has been very diligent in looking out for management and performers of CW and the members of this forum. It's not easy when you look at all the remarks and topics that are posted every day.


Zee


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: The Quiet Man on December 09, 2009, 03:01PM
Hmm, the question of who gets how much vocal time is a delicate one, but ultimately a musical one, which is ultimately in the hands of David Downes.  If you would like to see more of your fave vocalist or think she should sing this or that song it's probably all right, but accusations of musical unfairness or something like that are in a gray area at best.  As a singer myself, usually musical matters such as selection of music, soloists and performance details should be left up the music director's discretion, unless there's blatant favoritism or unprofessional behavior, which so far has not been the case.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: epicwolf on December 09, 2009, 09:30PM
I am a casual Celtic Woman fan. I am not hardcore like most of you guys are in here. I don't eat, sleep, and breath Celtic Woman. What Celtic Woman gave me is an escape from harsh reality of human nature. When I want piece and quiet and beauty from reality, i listen to their music and watch their shows. When I want to escape from the hard day at work and from all the BS in this world, i listen to Celtic Woman and watch their show. I go into CW forum because I found piece.  I'm a member of other forums and messageboard also. I'm a sports fan and if you think the opinions on here are harsh you have not seen anything yet. Go into one of my sports forums/messageboard and car forums/messageboard that I am a part of. What I truely like about the members on here is that the majority of people are very very mature. I'm in my 20's and people around my age can act very immature at times. Most of the members on CW are in their late 30's and up. Trust me you havn't seen critism until you are in one of my sports forums and see how they talk about their very own team after a lost. Celtic Woman Forum is one of the escape from other forums that is full of hate, bitterness, and heavily opinionated posts.

 I can give you guys my personal opinions on Celtic Woman. I never ever have any problems with Celtic Woman. I never ever have problems of how they performed and how they carry themselves. I never have problems with the music they play, sing or dance. I never have problems with which city they choose to play at or which songs they choose to sing. I never have problems with them using fireworks and doing a little upgrade with their new performance.  I do not understand how people can find faults about Celtic Woman at all. Its like they are too good to be true and people want to find the false. At times I can't stand them because they are too perfect. Nobody is perfect in this world and the CW members and their songs are close to perfect as I know. It baffles me how people can find something wrong about them.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Cash on December 10, 2009, 06:02AM
Epicwolf makes 2 great points

First, in his earlier post, Rich says CW are victims of their own success. I think they are victims more of their own personality, like Epic refers to. The music is about hope, peace, love, smiles, etc. It is an escapism from the regular cruel world we live in. Anything even mildly negative seems far worse because its up against a backdrop of everything being completely positive. Like Z said, people are often more negative than positive, and negative gets magnified with CW since everything is so positive about them. WOW thats getting deep, hope that makes some sense.

Second, most of the internet is like the wild west. If you have a dispute with someone, its like cyber-thunderdome! This forum is a kinder - gentler place. It took me time to adjust to it, and I sometimes revert  back to my more uncivilized days, I guess.  Gotta be more careful here. I do try to proof read my posts to make sure the content isnt at odds with forum standards. On occasion, maybe I misjudge some things. But we do have to follow the rules. I dont see all this as a free speech thing, but more as a chain-of-command / ownership kind of thing.

When you have a certain number of people, maybe even as low as 100, you are going to have disputes. People are going to have different opinions, come into conflict, etc. Someone has to resolve the disputes and keep things civil. The owners of a web page, forum, whatever, or others they designate, are the cops and the court system. Its not a democracy though, They own the web page. Plus, the people resposible for the website's content should be the ones determining what is appropriate. If someone like the government comes after anyone for some illegal activity here, or some private person or group takes offence and has cause of action to sue, the first people they go after will be the owners, not us mere members. Plus, the owners pay whatever costs are involved in running the web page, and in addition to money, they also spend something more valuable, their time.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: thedoctor on December 10, 2009, 09:55AM
" It bothers me more that they would post it if they do find a fault.  With the members devotion to, and love of CW, it's almost like someone wants to start a controversy and I don't understand  the reasoning behind it."

It may not be a "fault" that they are posting. When someone says "I thought the lighting was bad at some venue", I am surprised sometimes at the response that people give defending the lighting. Did you ask the question "Where were you sitting?" Maybe the person sat in a bad seat. Maybe they did not know that. Someone who knows the venue could have explained that so the person would not choose that seat the next time. The harsh responses in defense of the group is troubling. Educating someone will make them more willing to see another viewpoint. If that person who said the lighting was bad just gets a bunch of hard-line responses saying the group can do no wrong and they are perfect instead of asking a question to find out why, then you may have lost a chance to show them that they could really be a good fan. "A dead man can learn no lesson".

"I really don't care for the tries at "comparing" this girl to another and things like that. "

If you have a favorite in the group or choir or band then you have already done that. Just the fact that you may have an alex or lisa or chloe or lynn or mairead picture in your signature shows that by the action alone.

"What Celtic Woman gave me is an escape from harsh reality of human nature. When I want piece and quiet and beauty from reality, i listen to their music and watch their shows. When I want to escape from the hard day at work and from all the BS in this world, i listen to Celtic Woman and watch their show."

I can relate to this one very well for I do the samething. What better way to escape from the harsh reality of this world than to watch talented, pretty women dance and sing like angels. They are about love and hope and peace and all that stuff that this world seems to have forgotten. The image of them dancing and singing and being all happy and stuff is great. I wish I could be happy. The thing is I know that it is the image of Celtic Woman and what it represents that I like. It is not the women personally that I love, it is the music that they produce. As I said again, I have not had the opportunity to meet them in person and what little contact I had with some of the past and present members has been less than heart-felt like others may have had. Again, I should not be shredded for saying that or met with some hard-line response.
Ask me questions or say something like Rich said in response to the person who thought Mairead show a little too much leg. He said something like "Opinion noted but Mairead is 100% flesh and blood human and she would not wear anything she felt was inappropriate." Well done!!!! Excellent way of handling it. He gave the person a reason and did not make the person feel bad. Some of the responses were a bit harsh. Maybe the person comes from  a different generation or has a religious view or something. Ask questions or give a reason. Educate people.

I am not just focusing on the negative comments. I am focusing on the harsh and sometimes hard-line positive ones as well. Have love for the group and the music. I do. But temper that love with some of the harsh reality that we all try to escape. They are human and with humans, they can fail. If you get angry at someone who says something less than glowing and is not a personal attack on the women, then you need to look at yourself as well as the people who are saying the negative and put it in perspective. Look at it objectively. Make sure that for your own health that this is not an obsession. As "The Quiet Man" said "However, discussion of choice of music, arrangements, performance details, and so on, as long as it’s done in a non-cruel manner, I think is fair game and in fact healthy."

- thedoctor







Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: The Quiet Man on December 10, 2009, 02:20PM
Ah, therein lies the issue that led to the problems at the other site that will remain nameless.  It's easy to get caught up in the image vs. the artist as a person.  It's easy to see the ladies on stage singing and dancing and being angelic, or even to meet them briefly at a meet and greet or party where they are certain to be on their best behavior and come away thinking they are perfect or more than mortal.  They aren't.  They're performers who know how to perform, and might even be stage-managed a little to give that perfect image.  In the end they're people, though, and should be treated as such, lest this community fall into the trap of worshipping its objects to the point of becoming irrational and/or toxic.  I've been there and done that, and I must reluctantly but emphatically say that something has gone wrong in a forum where members are threatening each other with bodily harm or hurling nasty all-caps posts at anyone who even suggests that the performer or performers might have had an off night, or that this choice of music was not such a great one, or who is unhappy over perceived broken promises.  Not that that has happened here, it's the moderators' job to prevent that, but that's where you end up if you let anger insults, and even misplaced loyalty go unchecked. 

Frankly, I think we don't do the performers any favors by being hyper-loyal to the point of believing they can do no wrong.  The world at large doesn't eat sleep and breathe a particular performer.  Performers need to appeal to the world at large, not just their core fans, just like a political party needs to appeal to the whole nation, not just the base.  Hyper-loyal or intense fans who get angry or defensive when someone suggests their fave performer isn't perfect can be off-putting to the mainstream.  If someone says that the mix of songs is getting too poppy for the "Celtic" moniker or that this choreography might not work with that song, then that's probably something that should be discussed in a civil manner.  If someone pokes un-funny fun at the act it should probably be ignored, people like that tend to go away once they see they can't push buttons, and I'd hate to think the members of the act can't laugh at themselves when it swarranted.  It's only when things get cruel or touch certain hot-button issues that are salacious and personal (Chloe's weight, Mairead's age, etc.) that the designated leaders of this site need to step in, and it's probably better that they do it behind the scenes and swiftly, rather than engage in a prolonged fight in a thread that the whole world can read.                 



Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: thedoctor on December 10, 2009, 03:23PM
The Quiet Man,

You are wise. I could not have said what you said better myself. I know, I tried. I was not able to express it as well. You said a lot of things to keep in mind.

-thedoctor


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: bot1tle on December 10, 2009, 04:28PM
I love all the girls...... don't change any of you....


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Emily! on December 10, 2009, 04:32PM
Ask me questions or say something like Rich said in response to the person who thought Mairead show a little too much leg. He said something like "Opinion noted but Mairead is 100% flesh and blood human and she would not wear anything she felt was inappropriate." Well done!!!! Excellent way of handling it. He gave the person a reason and did not make the person feel bad. Some of the responses were a bit harsh. Maybe the person comes from  a different generation or has a religious view or something. Ask questions or give a reason. Educate people.

I responded to that question. I think people who did respond to it, whether or not you felt their response was "harsh," were just expressing their own opinions. Maybe some thought MY response was harsh, but it was my opinion that her dress was beautiful, it wasn't at all inappropriate and that women should be able to show off their legs if they want to. That's my opinion, and I'm entitled to express it, as are the other people who responded to that question. Just as he was entitled to ask it to begin with, everyone else was entitled to answer with their take on the matter.

Secondly, the issue of Mairead's dress being inappropriate and whether or not the lighting is bad is like comparing apples to oranges. Mairead "showing too much leg" is a WAY more sensitive topic, not just because it's about Mairead, but really it's about women in general. Can you really expect that people wouldn't get a little touchy over it? 


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: OldFatGuy on December 10, 2009, 04:52PM
Hey, Peter!  Ya had no idea what you were starting, did ya?
(http://www.ropescorner.com/smileys/22301.gif)


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: thedoctor on December 10, 2009, 05:53PM
Was that a hint to end this?


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: OldFatGuy on December 10, 2009, 05:57PM
Was that a hint to end this?
Nah.  As long as it remains civil and constructive, I have no problem with it.  Some of it is pretty interesting, and I'd like to think CW Ltd is paying attention.  But some of it also sounds like a bunch of people looking for new ways to say the same thing.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Western_Rose on December 10, 2009, 08:23PM
Where exactly have people stated such negative comments about SFTH on this forum? Sure I've seen people saying they didn't like SFTH as much as the other DVDs I was one of them, it should have been expected that some people would get disappointed when something is advertised as the most spectacular CW show to date you have to expect discontentment because we all have our own idea what the most spectacular show CW is and naturally we had the reviews of the attendees to tell us what the show was like beforehand. But someone who was present at the show and someone viewing the show from the TV are two different things. Things are lost, like the fireworks for instance they hardly (in my opinion mind you) contributed to the show when seen on TV but I bet that would be totally different for someone at the live show. Now as for this "the days when CW could do no wrong" business I feel it is still going on in a more subdued way but I'm very happy to see people here that admit CW are humans, back in 2008 it was kind of ridiculous.

So this is jsut my 2 cents please don't eat me for it  :)

P.S Rich I don't really get what you mean about back in 2006 we were shuddering about a new set list, considering almost all of the ANJ songs were from the Celtic Woman: The Show tour. In fact, alot of people were complaining about CW withdrawals because they wanted to hear the new stuff so much. I for one was dying to hear them, waiting for ANJ was a killer wait  8)


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: hesprit on December 10, 2009, 08:39PM
*LOL*  No, Rich, I didn't, but I have to agree, the discussions are, at least, getting interesting!  Even better, the discussions are, for the most part, thought out and expressive, and that's a good thing.  I'll admit I was a little worried about posting at all .. I actually thought about it for several days before making the original post, and I was rethinking it a bit before my later post.  Ultimately, I'm okay with it and glad to see it developing.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: zankoku on December 10, 2009, 09:19PM
I always wonder how one can complain that a lady shows too much leg. Ever been to the beach or swimming pool?

I think are very appropriate for the type of activity she does. If she tried to dance around wearing the costumes that the others wear, she really would fly, like right into the front row.

None of the ladies have dressed inappropriately  on or off the stage from what I can see.

Are they perfect? No. They are human  and I will bet that if you tick them off, you will find teh old Irish temper coming out.

Jim

Jim


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: OldFatGuy on December 10, 2009, 09:38PM
P.S Rich I don't really get what you mean about back in 2006 we were shuddering about a new set list, considering almost all of the ANJ songs were from the Celtic Woman: The Show tour. In fact, alot of people were complaining about CW withdrawals because they wanted to hear the new stuff so much. I for one was dying to hear them, waiting for ANJ was a killer wait  8)
Speaking from my own experience, I was disappointed that The Soft Goodbye and Harry's Game weren't included in ANJ.  Those are still two of my favorite songs.  My point was simply that - as soon as you change something - not everyone is going to be blissfully happy with all the changes.  I adore Fields of Gold.  The Moon's a Harsh Mistress will grow on me.  But I'm sure gonna miss The Voice.  I love Alex, as a person and as a performer, but I sure miss Órlagh.  And the "screaming and weeping and gnashing of teeth" I mentioned was related to the personnel changes, not the songs.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: thedoctor on December 10, 2009, 10:35PM
"Secondly, the issue of Mairead's dress being inappropriate and whether or not the lighting is bad is like comparing apples to oranges. Mairead "showing too much leg" is a WAY more sensitive topic, not just because it's about Mairead, but really it's about women in general. Can you really expect that people wouldn't get a little touchy over it? "

I dont mean for people to debate what was actually said in that thread here but merely use it as an example.

Given these points:
1) It is not the topic of what is said in the threads but how people respond to them when they have a difference of opinion is what is being focused on
2) Given point 1, then it is comparing apples to apples

I ask this seriously to anyone: When someone says something you do not agree with, do you ask why they think that way?


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: The Quiet Man on December 10, 2009, 10:42PM
I remember myself, back in the beginning, I deliberately gave the first tour a miss because I was still licking my wounds from another experience with a crossover tour that ended in disaster and a website situation that turned hostile.  I frankly only came back to CW because Hayley was involved and the ANJ video looked more lively than the initial one.  It's really then that the whole CW community got off the ground and so on.  This community did show the pangs of birth and creaked with growing pains for some time, but I think it has now settled into a reasonable situation and avoided the excesses that some other forums fell into that ultimately destroyed them.  The group itself has gone through some changes and not everybody was happy with everything.  I think there was, somewhere along the line, a collective choice to accept that fact, and not stomp on every difference that arose.  The fact is that some of these forums the owners. I think, forget that though they may own the site, they aren't kings over their own little corner of the webverse.  I think we aren't there, thankfully.  I think the general age of the users has something to do with it too.  When you have a couple of older owners/mods and a bunch of teen and early twentysomething users, it's one dynamic.  When you have a fairly large and fairly diverse group of owners/mods and a higher average age, it's another dynamic.  

This is a living and breathing community, and it's likely to change again as things progress.  The day may come when Lisa "wants to be more involved with her children" or Mairead decides "the time has come to move on to something else," or Chloe or Lynn or Alex decide to launch solo careers.  Other soloists may come who some like more or less than those who came before.  The day may even come when the powers that be decide that Celtic Woman has run its course and it's time to wind things up, though I hope that day is a ways away.  This is really nothing new, we've all watched favorite television shows change season to season.  Maybe you lost interest in Law and Order once Jerry Orbach was out of the picture, and we all knew that all the Star Trek series had to end eventually.  That's ok.  The world didn't come to an end then, and it isn't going to come to an end when the next big change comes for CW.  If we're truly wise, we have to roll with the punches, take things as they come, and make and tolerate reasonable decisions.  If we do this, the rest of things shouldn't be an issue.    


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: thedoctor on December 10, 2009, 10:48PM
Well said!!

I do think that you just opened another can of worms: Even hypothetically speaking this phrase "The day may come when Lisa "wants to be more involved with her children" or Mairead decides "the time has come to move on to something else," or Chloe or Lynn or Alex decide to launch solo careers."  may get you some flack :)



Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Emily! on December 11, 2009, 12:20AM
Well said!!

I do think that you just opened another can of worms: Even hypothetically speaking this phrase "The day may come when Lisa "wants to be more involved with her children" or Mairead decides "the time has come to move on to something else," or Chloe or Lynn or Alex decide to launch solo careers."  may get you some flack :)



Why? I think all of us here know that, unfortunately, all good things must come to an end. CW won't be around forever. We've already seen several girls come and go, and eventually that will probably happen with all of them, or the whole thing will just shut down all together.

That's why, for me, I'm enjoying the ride while I can. I'm buying my tickets, my M&Gs, and enjoying the shows as much as possible. This won't be forever, so better make it count now!


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: thedoctor on December 11, 2009, 01:04AM
I was joking. According to.... if you can say this...... blog etiquette...... an "emoticon" can be used to express humor and signify a comment is a joke.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Mel on December 11, 2009, 04:18AM
Hey, Peter!  Ya had no idea what you were starting, did ya?
(http://www.ropescorner.com/smileys/22301.gif)

I was going to say something similar lol.

now we got Emily all riled up.... she is kind of fun to watch when she gets going   ;)

<sits back and eats popcorn while watching the show  :D)


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Cash on December 11, 2009, 05:13AM
First, lets not give anyone who may be reading this any ideas of quiting, going solo, having kids (unless their departure is only temp) etc. (however it would be acceptable if one of the single ladies wants to marry me!  :o   :D  ) Ok getting serious, we should strongly encourage the current members to stay put. Remind them that they are blessed with a great career now. They make a lot of money AND they get to do what they love. Many people are not that lucky. If they want kids, its been proven that you can be a Celtic Woman AND a MUM. And now with distance learning, they can even further their education while touring. DONT LEAVE!

Second, while it is a harsh reality that at some point someone will leave, its not an end. We have already seen changes and adaptation. I think back to March 2009. I went to see CW on the 3rd and 4th, but on March 1st, I attended the opening concert for Fleetwood Mac's Unleashed Tour! If I recall, Mick Fleetwood started the group before I was even born! Many joined and left, yet they keep rockin' ! Yes they are older and not as lively now. Stevie doesnt spin as fast, Lindsey doesnt jump around as much, Mick doesnt use the HOTZ vest. Christine is retired and not with them. But John McVie is still doing the same thing he did 40 years ago, just with gray hair now. But they still put on a very lively and entertaining show! I think CW will be similar. They may get to a point when they wont sell out places like they now do. May need smaller venues. Or may need to change some things to get attention and attract new fans. But they will still be around.

Third, as far as Mairead's clothing, or any of their clothing, I think any question of appropriateness it should be more along the lines of safety. I have said it before, that they should make Mairead wear proper shoes for jumping, spinning, dancing, etc. I have wondered why lawyers and insurers havent jumped in to complain. I wonder if they pay added insurance to cover any injury, because it seems the high heels add a significant risk of injury. But I am no dancer, so maybe I am all wrong. Plus, its hard to get a good look at her shoes, she moves too fast. Maybe they arent as high as I think.  Also, back when I saw the live show, I noticed Alex being very careful while coming down the steps by Ray's drums. She had that long dress on. It seems long dresses and steps shouldnt be combined. Some of those dresses should be a little shorter just for safety. If they show a little leg, who cares? Like Zankoku said, our society has legs all over the place. Nothing wrong or inappropriate about it. And I still dont know how some of you spotted Lynn's leg tatoo. I tried seeing their legs < looks down at ground and hangs head momentarily in quiet shame  :D  >  and all I saw was dress. They are very well covered, esp. for today's standards. If people want to go on a moral crusade on that, I would think MTV would be a more appropriate target.



Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: tc84 on December 11, 2009, 05:59AM
[...] It's easy to get caught up in the image vs. the artist as a person.  It's easy to see the ladies on stage singing and dancing and being angelic, or even to meet them briefly at a meet and greet or party where they are certain to be on their best behavior and come away thinking they are perfect or more than mortal.  They aren't.  They're performers who know how to perform, and might even be stage-managed a little to give that perfect image.  In the end they're people, though, and should be treated as such, lest this community fall into the trap of worshipping its objects to the point of becoming irrational and/or toxic.  I've been there and done that, and I must reluctantly but emphatically say that something has gone wrong in a forum where members are threatening each other with bodily harm or hurling nasty all-caps posts at anyone who even suggests that the performer or performers might have had an off night, or that this choice of music was not such a great one, or who is unhappy over perceived broken promises.  Not that that has happened here, it's the moderators' job to prevent that, but that's where you end up if you let anger insults, and even misplaced loyalty go unchecked. 

Frankly, I think we don't do the performers any favors by being hyper-loyal to the point of believing they can do no wrong.  The world at large doesn't eat sleep and breathe a particular performer.  Performers need to appeal to the world at large, not just their core fans, just like a political party needs to appeal to the whole nation, not just the base.  Hyper-loyal or intense fans who get angry or defensive when someone suggests their fave performer isn't perfect can be off-putting to the mainstream. 

Sorry but i have to give my two cent's to this...
first off you all know how much i adore Órlagh BUT i know she is a human being with faults every human being has got, she is unique as everyone is... So i'm not lost in a dreamworld without realizing that there is a life beyond CW and Órlagh! Yes i say that Órlagh is an Angel and i truly mean that from the experience i've made with her and what she did for me and that doesn't mean i make her to a person she doesn't is...

Now: Everyone has got their own taste and opinions and i would never expect anyone to share mine for example my Stepfather said a few times, that he couldn't listen to Órlagh for more than a few minutes... Well he said that in a very negative tone and it did upset me If he would have said like one of my best friends said to me "It's not my kind of music, but i'm happy for you that you found something making you happy" there would have been nothing to be upset about...I wasn't upset by the fact, that someone doesn't like Órlagh because well do i like everything? But i appreciate everything making people i care for truly happy no matter if i like it or not...
It's the WAY people are expressing their opinions.
Yes, i might be overexcited and most of you might get the impression, that i lost it completely but well at least I know that i have a life beside CW and Órlagh...

(Órlagh has just be an example to express my opinions...)

Well sorry i needed to say that...

Lots of Love!!!
coco xxx


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: zankoku on December 11, 2009, 08:03AM
Quote
Why? I think all of us here know that, unfortunately, all good things must come to an end. CW won't be around forever. We've already seen several girls come and go, and eventually that will probably happen with all of them, or the whole thing will just shut down all together.

That's why, for me, I'm enjoying the ride while I can. I'm buying my tickets, my M&Gs, and enjoying the shows as much as possible. This won't be forever, so better make it count now!


You are right, CW won't be around forever ( Well maybe. Look at the Beach Boys.  ;D They may not be in the same form, but they are still around.

As for CW, yes All of the ladies may change but then you have more to experience.

Dierdre has her own show

Hayley has her own show

Orlagh is solo along with working with Brinkman

Not sure about Meav

Mairead does have her own group which I am sure will be active when she leaves CW

Same for all of them.

and look at the choir members and of course the drummers. They ar ebeing noticed and have their own fans.

Just think of the many possibilities all because of a one night show for PBS.

And PBS says tehy are not out to start groups.  ;D


Jim


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: hesprit on December 11, 2009, 09:37AM
"Secondly, the issue of Mairead's dress being inappropriate and whether or not the lighting is bad is like comparing apples to oranges. Mairead "showing too much leg" is a WAY more sensitive topic, not just because it's about Mairead, but really it's about women in general. Can you really expect that people wouldn't get a little touchy over it? "

I dont mean for people to debate what was actually said in that thread here but merely use it as an example.

Given these points:
1) It is not the topic of what is said in the threads but how people respond to them when they have a difference of opinion is what is being focused on
2) Given point 1, then it is comparing apples to apples

I ask this seriously to anyone: When someone says something you do not agree with, do you ask why they think that way?



While I see what you are getting at with the idea of asking for people's reasoning, I think you may still be missing the point Emily was bringing up.  It's one thing to ask about why someone felt the lighting was bad, or something which may change depending on where the person is sitting during a concert and it's something completely different to be saying that a dress, a song, a choice is in bad taste.  The first is easily an idea that can, and should, be discussed because it can make a huge difference.  On the other hand, as I had said before, making accusations or demands really does not leave room for discussion, they are just "out there" and only leave the possibility for reactions.   "Why do you think this?" is not going to help at that point.

Now, with that being said, I want to point this out ... I have been very pleased to see the exception to what I've been saying, and that actually IS the discussion about Mairead's dress.  The Leprechaun presented his opinion as exactly that, an opinion, but he also made a point of asking for other opinions.  He didn't state it as a fact, or as an accusation, he was openly asking for discussion, including opposing opinions.  Very well handled on his part, I must say, although I do have to admit that the back of my neck did bristle a little whan I first read it, as I'm sure many others did.  *chuckles*  I reacted emotionally first, but then something even better happened.

In addition to Leprechaun's fine example of wording, the responses also were kept in good form.  Emily was the first to respond, and she simply stated that she disagreed and why .. calmly and without any malice.  Rich was next, and I have to say, his post was probably one of the best "lead by example"  moderator posts I have ever seen.  With a simple, short post, he reminded everyone that it was okay for Leprechaun to have said what he did, as long as the rest were able to respond, AND, at the same time, Rich did respond in a way that didn't offer any insult to Leprechaun as well.  It was about as efficient and classy of a post as I've ever seen a moderator/Admin make to a controversial statement, and as the rest of the responses indicated, it was quite effective.  The only thing I've been wondering on that is whether Rich had planned it that way, or if it was an instinct as he simply posted what he felt?  Either way, though, definite kudos for it!


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: The Quiet Man on December 11, 2009, 09:52AM
Oh yes, definitely, these crossover acts have a shelf life, depending on their nature.  The point is we have to just go with the flow, take nothing for granted, and be mature and realistic about change.  There may be a discussion as things progress about whether the ladies should continue in a poppy direction or "return to their roots" with more traditional Irish pieces.  This is probably fair game as long as it doesn't break us into polarized camps and there's no perception that one side or the other is somehow disloyal or being "unsupportive."  

I say this, again, because where I came from there were questions, legitimate ones, of musical direction, artist-fan relations, and destructive behavior.  The site administrators simply chose to clamp down on anything that wasn't totally positive, resorting to banning, intimidation, etc.  In all fairness to CW, I think that was a unique situation, and we are unlikely to find ourselves with problems due to destructive behavior (the ladies are eiher responsible family people (Lisa and Alex) or have too much respect for themselves (Mairead and Lynn))or artist-fan relations (meeting the fans is BIG for them).  

Let's see what the future brings, is all I can see.
  


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: thedoctor on December 11, 2009, 11:18AM
I know that the women of Celtic Woman fard. I know especially that they fard prior to a show. Sometimes they fard when they dont have a show. I dont have a problem with women farding, but it can take a long time.









Mods/Admins:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Fard
I say this as a test to see if I am questioned, attacked, banned, or laughed at. It is to prove a point
I in no way have said anything wrong or bad about Celtic Woman or said what you think I said


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Emily! on December 11, 2009, 12:06PM
I was joking. According to.... if you can say this...... blog etiquette...... an "emoticon" can be used to express humor and signify a comment is a joke.

Emoticon or not, it's hard to tell online when someone is "joking," and regardless of that fact, I was making a statement because there are many here who have legitimate concern about the girls leaving and CW breaking up.

(And before anyone freaks, CW isn't breaking up. I'm talking about WAY in the future).

I know that the women of Celtic Woman fard. I know especially that they fard prior to a show. Sometimes they fard when they dont have a show. I dont have a problem with women farding, but it can take a long time.

What does this have to do with anything we've been talking about? And before you say that I'm "attacking" you, I really just want to know why you feel like you have to "test" it to begin with. No one here has attacked, laughed at, or ridiculed anyone else. We're having a mature, adult discussion and I don't see anyone else being hurtful. We're just discussing.

I dont mean for people to debate what was actually said in that thread here but merely use it as an example.

Given these points:
1) It is not the topic of what is said in the threads but how people respond to them when they have a difference of opinion is what is being focused on
2) Given point 1, then it is comparing apples to apples

I ask this seriously to anyone: When someone says something you do not agree with, do you ask why they think that way?

Are you insinuating that I responded to the question of Mairead's dress inappropriately? Because if so, I respectfully disagree. As I said before, and as Peter kindly said above, I responded appropriately and calmly, expressing my disagreement. Why am I supposed to go through a long back and forth about WHY someone feels the way they do BEFORE I state my opinion? I don't see a written rule about that anywhere.

In addition, that wasn't what I was talking about to begin with. Please see Peter's explanation above. He put it much more eloquently than I could have.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: lifeismusic2009 on December 11, 2009, 12:20PM
The way I see it, there is no possible way that everyone will agree on the issue of what is appropriate  and inappropriate. It won't happen no matter how many ways people explain themselves.
Secondly, if someone responds to a post inappropriately, then it is up to the mods to address them for their comments. In my opinion, Emily's response was perfectly fine and if she said something she shouldn't have then it would be for the moderators to say. So this point should be dropped. Period.
And I also believe that in order to be a member of any forum, you have to be able to just let things roll of your back. No one thinks the same way and they can state their opinion just like you can. Just because we all love Celtic Woman does not mean that we will love everything about them without any disagreements. If someone says something that you don't agree with, state your side and move on.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Emily! on December 11, 2009, 12:22PM
The way I see it, there is no possible way that everyone will agree on the issue of what is appropriate  and inappropriate. It won't happen no matter how many ways people explain themselves.
Secondly, if someone responds to a post inappropriately, then it is up to the mods to address them for their comments. In my opinion, Emily's response was perfectly fine and if she said something she shouldn't have then it would be for the moderators to say. So this point should be dropped. Period.
And I also believe that in order to be a member of any forum, you have to be able to just let things roll of your back. No one thinks the same way and they can state their opinion just like you can. Just because we all love Celtic Woman does not mean that we will love everything about them without any disagreements. If someone says something that you don't agree with, state your side and move on.

Thank you, and exactly. Nobody is going to agree on everything, but friendly discussion is fine. As long as everyone behaves appropriately and maturely then it's all good.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: dudalak on December 11, 2009, 12:25PM
The production of the show is not of our business, I LOVED the new show and you can believe it.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Jeanine on December 11, 2009, 12:43PM
You guys, lets get back on track, okay?  The point is that we all have our preferences.  There is nothing wrong with sharing your preferences on this forum as long as it meets these characteristics:

1. It is polite and respectful, not only of the girls and CW Ltd., but also of the other members of this forum
2. It does not attack or criticize the girls or CW Ltd. personally
3. It does not attack or criticize the other members of this forum personally


If it goes against those and any other guidelines that I haven't mentioned, then there is a problem and the administrators and moderators will step in and take whatever action is deemed appropriate.

Anyway, back to the original discussion.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: thedoctor on December 11, 2009, 12:43PM
Emily,

I am not saying that you responded the wrong way. You responded with your opinion. I dont have a problem with your opinion and in fact I agree with it. Now given that, the point of what I am trying to say is being missed completely.

My previous statement as to the women farding, is very pertinent to my point and this thread. Farding is something women have done for a very long time and I want to see how people react to talking about women and the girls of Celtic Woman farding. Yes, I said that they fard.

It goes to show that somethings may not mean what they are perceived as. So sometimes before an opinion is given in response to something, that it is BETTER  to find out that it is truely what they mean and not misunderstood. Yes, there is NO RULE saying you have to but it can be a good tool to further and better communicate with people when there is a better understanding of the topic at hand.

And just in case some of you may have gotten angry over the statement that women of Celtic Woman fard, the definition of "fard" is to apply makeup but there might have been people who have reported it because they may have thought I was saying something else. What I said was not harmful or insulting to them but may have been misunderstood. That is what I am trying to say. That is why sometimes we need to ask "why"  so we are clear as to what someone means.

I am not denying anyone's right to an opinion but I am saying that it is better to use caution sometimes to make sure that a person is actually saying what it is they are saying and not misunderstood. If they are being mean and insulting then take action. Yes somethings are obvious and do not need clarification.

-thedoctor


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Old Guy on December 11, 2009, 12:48PM
There was a thread a while back, titled something like “A difficult question to ask” that was about songs that people might not like as much as others. Someone (or more likely a few people) commented that they liked all of the songs. My somewhat contrarian post in that thread was that, given the wide variety of music they perform, it’s more likely that some people wouldn’t like some songs than that everyone would like them all. I have pretty eclectic tastes in music and like quite a wide variety, but even I have some that I don’t really care for.

I think it’s healthy to point out what we like and don’t like and, of course, we won’t all agree. We are all unique individuals and it’s perfectly normal to disagree on some things. As long as we do it respectfully, it’s a good thing. This forum is one means to convey our thoughts about performances to CW. To be less than honest would be a doing them a disservice.

If CW doesn’t try new things, they stagnate and die professionally. When they try new things, they won’t please all of us and they NEED to know what works and what doesn’t. That’s the only way they can continue to improve and grow.

I’ve never met any of the CW performers and don’t know that this applies to any of them individually, but performers, as a group, tend to be somewhat insecure. Their feelings can be hurt easily and unintentionally. If you have a criticism, please be gentle and carefully consider how you phrase it. And be courteous and tactful with those who have differing opinions.

Gary



Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Emily! on December 11, 2009, 12:51PM
Anyway, I'm done with this thread.

There's no use in stating the same thing over and over, which is that I have a right to state my opinion, and I don't feel like I need to hold everyone's hands and sing Kumbaya and ask why they think the way they do. I can say what I think, and everyone else can too and I don't see anything rude or ignorant about doing that.

But I've said that about 90000 times at this point, and we're all kind of going around in circles. Some of us are saying the same thing over and over just in a different way, so with that said, I'm done. I have studying to do.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Kelli on December 11, 2009, 01:23PM
I have followed this discussion with great interest.  I'd like to thank Peter for starting it.  I'd also like to thank most of you for responding with well thought out, insightful posts.

I'd like to sum up what I believe was Peter's original thought, echoed repeatedly (please correct me if I've misunderstood, folks):  hearing and giving opinions regarding Celtic Woman is one of the main reasons we are here.  It is healthy, and likely even helpful.  BUT, in accordance with our rules here it must be done respectfully!  It is perfectly acceptable to prefer one soloist or one DVD over the other, but please don't disrespectfully assume you know exactly why others agree or disagree with you.  Saying that CW Ltd "had better" do something in my mind leaves me asking, "or what?"

There is a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes, and each day admins and mods make judgement calls.  Trust me, we can handle being baited and tested, though I personally don't see the need for it.

I would love to see this discussion continue if new thoughts can be contributed.



Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: bobh56 on December 11, 2009, 01:40PM
I, too, have been following this thread since it started, and have noticed that most (if not all) of the posts are saying pretty much the same thing - We love Celtic Woman, but not everything they do is always to our personal liking.  Well, to that I say, so be it.  Nevertheless, and a the risk of incurring the wrath of Kelli (that is meant as a joke), I’d like to add my two (perhaps more) cents.  

Like several of the previous commenters, although I have been (and am) a fan of many things in my life (e.g., sports teams, TV shows, and music groups), and have joined other web forums on occasion, until CW came along, and I discovered CWF, I was not an active follower of any of those things.  I’m very pleased that CW and the CWF changed my mind on that – at least as far as CW is concerned.  

With regard to CW itself, while their music clearly is one of the things that draws me, it has to be something more that has made me a borderline groupie because many of the groups that I like make wonderful music.  I believe the other reason I so like/love CW is their willingness to share parts of themselves.  As a result, despite the fact that I have not yet had the pleasure of meeting any of the Ladies personally, I genuinely like them all as people, and those feelings are not confined to just the Ladies; the band and choir members are in there, too.  

I joined the CWF (which I discovered by accident) in June 2008.  I didn’t, however, make my first post until a year later.  I waited (some refer to this practice as lurking) until I was comfortable with the group, and (more importantly) how it’s run.  Throughout that waiting period, and since becoming active, I have been very impressed by the intelligence, maturity, respectfulness, and reasonableness of my Fellow Forumites.  And, at the risk of seeming sycophantic, Rich and the other CWF Moderators are second to none, and deserve all the praise and thanks we can offer.

As stated in this thread, change, while not always welcome, is inevitable – particularly in the music industry.  (Remember:  Bob Dylan did an album of gospel songs, which was pretty good; Mark O’Connor did a Jazz album; Sting just released a Holiday (my word not his) album; and the Grateful Dead went disco.)  Speaking for myself, I love the changes that have occurred in CW – indeed, I look forward to them.  This isn’t to imply that I’m always happy about the various comings and goings.  Like the rest of you, I have my favorites, but I also treasure the new performers and material because: 1) they’re outstanding; and, 2) as such, my lists of favorites continue to grow.  

As far as giving advice to CW, Ltd. about how to conduct its business, it’s fair to say that my musical ability would probably rank about as high as the skill level on the slopes of the best downhill skier in Cuba.  That said, just as I would hope they won’t try and tell me how to evaluate environmental impacts (my line of work), I will refrain from giving them advice about musical arrangements, dresses, lighting, pyrotechnics, etc.  I trust David, the Ladies, and CW, Ltd. to make those decisions; they’ve done an excellent job so far.

So, in closing, I’d just like to reiterate that I intend to continue to enjoy CW and the CWF for many years to come.

More importantly, here’s wishing the CW Family and all my Fellow Forumites a blessed, joyous, and safe Holiday Season and New Year.  

Bob


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: thedoctor on December 11, 2009, 02:08PM
I am going to say that I am done here as well. My intention was not to seem like I was saying the samething over and over but more to convey a subtlety in my point that was either not understood or just lost in my way of explaining it. I do not know what people are thinking, I can only understand what is written. And the subtlety that I was referring to was not touched on in a manner that made it clear as to what I was saying. So, as to not anger anyone or seem like a broken record, I  am going to bow out of the discussion.

-thedoctor


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: shankdee on December 11, 2009, 02:38PM
 ;)   :D   :D  To bobH56. .  
Your wonderful Post resonates with beauty and love for the C W phenomenon....that we all love and share,,,from Skopje, to Poland, to Taiwan, to Okinawa, to Mexico, to Canada, to South America, to Germany, to the U K, to Ireland, to Japan
we  are lights shining little rays of C W wonderment...all over the world, and of course the 50 states ' great cities and towns.....how fortunate we are to even have this in our lifetimes...young or old.....male...and female...musicians...or listeners...I continue to enjoy the FORUM for just such posts as yours...Change is certainly inevitable as you have stated, so here's hoping we have the Grace and understanding to accept it when it does occur....

I finally had my first REAL
C W dream..and I dreamed somehow I was invited back stage...and Lisa motioned for me to sit next to her...She said
she was hungry and someone brought her a snack which she shared with me...then she said, I'll be back, I have to go
check on my children...there were people milling about,  she came back and I started wondering when she was going to leave backstage and go out front and sing...she kept sitting there smiling and joking with everyone....so as
you said one of the most noted things about them is how willing they are to meet their fans and to share themselves
with the fans..each and everyone of them is approachable, cordial, funny, gracious and that is what is so
endearing about them...so that translated into the dream I imagine....

I plan to buy some C W DVDs and C Ds to send to the troops for Christmas...and some for others who may not own any...
Everytime I hear about someone being stressed...I wonder WHY on earth do they NOT have some C W in their lives.???
One of my friend's sons is an engineer for G E...in a highly stressed job...projects deadlines loom, and sometimes he is' so wound up he cannot sleep or eat....NOW, that calls for some C W and she said, YES, she will listen to them and she will make sure he gets some of their music also..Thanks again for that wonderful, thoughtful Post... shankdee



[b]C W FOREVER *** CW FOREVER***C W FOREVER *** CW FOREVER***C W FOREVER *** CW FOREVER***C W FOREVER *** [/b]


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: The Leprechaun on December 11, 2009, 06:43PM
Okay, I have only read the first page of posts so hopefully I'm not asking anything that has been answered. Why did they leave out You'll Be In My Heart? I noticed when I watched my tape of it when it went strange, but that could have just been a temporary problem with the station. Did they think it could be better? I don't know for sure but it might have been better at the live show I saw. Will it be on later DVDs? Also, when was the blackout during the performance?

People are pretty much right. I would never say here who my least favorite member is (who, by the way, I still love dearly and sometimes wonder why I have favorites). I have started two threads that I knew I probably shouldn't while I was making them. It was a stupid thing for me to do and I'll email Rich if I have any questions of a thread that I might want to start.

At least we are arguing that there should be MORE of members we don't feel that are being shown enough. If we were arguing for seeing LESS of a certain member, that would be bad.


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: aislin on December 11, 2009, 08:07PM
Okay, I have only read the first page of posts so hopefully I'm not asking anything that has been answered. Why did they leave out You'll Be In My Heart? I noticed when I watched my tape of it when it went strange, but that could have just been a temporary problem with the station. Did they think it could be better? I don't know for sure but it might have been better at the live show I saw. Will it be on later DVDs? Also, when was the blackout during the performance?

Ok, that's kinda off topic but, we don't know about YBIMH, we'll just have to wait and see. My understanding is that a generator blew during the performance but they just fixed it and started up again.

To get back on topic, if we can't play nice with each other I'll lock the thread. As Kelli said above, this has been an interesting thread so far and I hate to have to shut it down.

aislin


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: The Quiet Man on December 12, 2009, 07:56AM
Oh, I don't think we're there yet.  My point in joining this discussion was to point out some pitfalls that have led to issues in other forums of this nature.  So far we haven't hit any of them to the point of it becoming a problem.  We should all be ok as long as we "stay in our lanes." 


Title: Re: What has happened to us?
Post by: Life is Great! on December 31, 2009, 08:03PM
Moderating this forum is a difficult task, and that's the reason why we are so careful and selective about choosing moderators.  We allow some posts that might be seen as critical, while editing or deleting others.  But there's a method to our madness.

Some of our members have posted their issues with the actual presentation of the CW show; lighting, staging, gowns, song selection, solos or group numbers that were omitted (or included), etc.  As long as they are respectful, we believe CW has a right to hear these opinions.  They're in business to appeal to their fan base, and we represent that fan base.  What better place is there than a large fan forum for CW Ltd to tune in and get honest feedback from their paying clientele?  If anything, I feel they are almost obligated to take such criticism seriously.

But we draw the line at posts that are openly critical of the performers themselves.  They - the soloists, choir members and musicians - do read our posts, and they are human.  On more than one occasion I've learned that a performer's feelings were hurt by something that was said here.  We walk a fine line.  The producers can add a new solo if they want; it's far more difficult for the soloist to change her voice or her personality.  They are individuals with different talents and styles, and none of them are ever going to please every fan every night.  It's a matter of taste.  If you want to say that you enjoy Dougie MacLean's performance of Caledonia more than Lisa's, that's fine.  But if you want to say that Lisa doesn't have a good voice or stage presence, that's over the line and will probably be edited or removed.

Sometimes I miss the days when we were a small, rather intimate collection of a couple of hundred rabid fans and CW could do no wrong.  We are now a large and growing global community, and there are bound to be some wildly divergent opinions in a "group" with over 1800 members.  Originally, we had only the Helix concert and the first five soloists.  We loved the show and worshipped the girls.  Then along came ANJ and, for the first time, we had that dreaded word - change.  The set list changed.  Hayley was in, then she was out.  Méav was in, then she was out.  And there was much screaming and weeping and gnashing of teeth.  Now we've seen new songs, new gowns, new staging and *shudder* new performers.  Celtic Woman is a victim of their own success.  In order to pay their bills, they've had to add new songs and remove some of our old favorites.  They've had to replace some people who have chosen to go in a new direction.  As a result, they've given us a basis for comparison that we didn't have before.  And not all comparisons are going to be favorable.  That's life.

So here's your ground rule.  If you feel the need to post some constructive criticism about the CW production, we will probably allow it (as long as it's truly respectful and relevant; when in doubt, send one of us a PM).  But if you go after one of the girls - Alex, Chloë, Deirdre, Hayley, Lisa, Lynn, Máiréad, Méav and Órlagh - you are treading on very thin ice.  They are like family to us, and we will protect them like a mama lion protects her cubs.

Sorry if I rambled.  But Peter's candid and insightful post gave me a chance to air a few things I've had on my mind.  Thanks for reading.

Rich

off topic p.s.  If you feel your constitutional rights have been violated in any way - you signed away those rights when you agreed to be bound by our membership rules.  This forum is privately owned and administered, and you do not have the right to say anything you want, either in posts or in the chat room.

Rich, thanks for all you do and what you said here. And with all the input here, I really can't wait to see the new DVD!