What has happened to us?

[epicwolf]

I am a casual Celtic Woman fan. I am not hardcore like most of you guys are in here. I don't eat, sleep, and breath Celtic Woman. What Celtic Woman gave me is an escape from harsh reality of human nature. When I want piece and quiet and beauty from reality, i listen to their music and watch their shows. When I want to escape from the hard day at work and from all the BS in this world, i listen to Celtic Woman and watch their show. I go into CW forum because I found piece.  I'm a member of other forums and messageboard also. I'm a sports fan and if you think the opinions on here are harsh you have not seen anything yet. Go into one of my sports forums/messageboard and car forums/messageboard that I am a part of. What I truely like about the members on here is that the majority of people are very very mature. I'm in my 20's and people around my age can act very immature at times. Most of the members on CW are in their late 30's and up. Trust me you havn't seen critism until you are in one of my sports forums and see how they talk about their very own team after a lost. Celtic Woman Forum is one of the escape from other forums that is full of hate, bitterness, and heavily opinionated posts.

 I can give you guys my personal opinions on Celtic Woman. I never ever have any problems with Celtic Woman. I never ever have problems of how they performed and how they carry themselves. I never have problems with the music they play, sing or dance. I never have problems with which city they choose to play at or which songs they choose to sing. I never have problems with them using fireworks and doing a little upgrade with their new performance.  I do not understand how people can find faults about Celtic Woman at all. Its like they are too good to be true and people want to find the false. At times I can't stand them because they are too perfect. Nobody is perfect in this world and the CW members and their songs are close to perfect as I know. It baffles me how people can find something wrong about them.

[Cash]

Epicwolf makes 2 great points

First, in his earlier post, Rich says CW are victims of their own success. I think they are victims more of their own personality, like Epic refers to. The music is about hope, peace, love, smiles, etc. It is an escapism from the regular cruel world we live in. Anything even mildly negative seems far worse because its up against a backdrop of everything being completely positive. Like Z said, people are often more negative than positive, and negative gets magnified with CW since everything is so positive about them. WOW thats getting deep, hope that makes some sense.

Second, most of the internet is like the wild west. If you have a dispute with someone, its like cyber-thunderdome! This forum is a kinder - gentler place. It took me time to adjust to it, and I sometimes revert  back to my more uncivilized days, I guess.  Gotta be more careful here. I do try to proof read my posts to make sure the content isnt at odds with forum standards. On occasion, maybe I misjudge some things. But we do have to follow the rules. I dont see all this as a free speech thing, but more as a chain-of-command / ownership kind of thing.

When you have a certain number of people, maybe even as low as 100, you are going to have disputes. People are going to have different opinions, come into conflict, etc. Someone has to resolve the disputes and keep things civil. The owners of a web page, forum, whatever, or others they designate, are the cops and the court system. Its not a democracy though, They own the web page. Plus, the people resposible for the website's content should be the ones determining what is appropriate. If someone like the government comes after anyone for some illegal activity here, or some private person or group takes offence and has cause of action to sue, the first people they go after will be the owners, not us mere members. Plus, the owners pay whatever costs are involved in running the web page, and in addition to money, they also spend something more valuable, their time.

[thedoctor]

" It bothers me more that they would post it if they do find a fault.  With the members devotion to, and love of CW, it's almost like someone wants to start a controversy and I don't understand  the reasoning behind it."

It may not be a "fault" that they are posting. When someone says "I thought the lighting was bad at some venue", I am surprised sometimes at the response that people give defending the lighting. Did you ask the question "Where were you sitting?" Maybe the person sat in a bad seat. Maybe they did not know that. Someone who knows the venue could have explained that so the person would not choose that seat the next time. The harsh responses in defense of the group is troubling. Educating someone will make them more willing to see another viewpoint. If that person who said the lighting was bad just gets a bunch of hard-line responses saying the group can do no wrong and they are perfect instead of asking a question to find out why, then you may have lost a chance to show them that they could really be a good fan. "A dead man can learn no lesson".

"I really don't care for the tries at "comparing" this girl to another and things like that. "

If you have a favorite in the group or choir or band then you have already done that. Just the fact that you may have an alex or lisa or chloe or lynn or mairead picture in your signature shows that by the action alone.

"What Celtic Woman gave me is an escape from harsh reality of human nature. When I want piece and quiet and beauty from reality, i listen to their music and watch their shows. When I want to escape from the hard day at work and from all the BS in this world, i listen to Celtic Woman and watch their show."

I can relate to this one very well for I do the samething. What better way to escape from the harsh reality of this world than to watch talented, pretty women dance and sing like angels. They are about love and hope and peace and all that stuff that this world seems to have forgotten. The image of them dancing and singing and being all happy and stuff is great. I wish I could be happy. The thing is I know that it is the image of Celtic Woman and what it represents that I like. It is not the women personally that I love, it is the music that they produce. As I said again, I have not had the opportunity to meet them in person and what little contact I had with some of the past and present members has been less than heart-felt like others may have had. Again, I should not be shredded for saying that or met with some hard-line response.
Ask me questions or say something like Rich said in response to the person who thought Mairead show a little too much leg. He said something like "Opinion noted but Mairead is 100% flesh and blood human and she would not wear anything she felt was inappropriate." Well done!!!! Excellent way of handling it. He gave the person a reason and did not make the person feel bad. Some of the responses were a bit harsh. Maybe the person comes from  a different generation or has a religious view or something. Ask questions or give a reason. Educate people.

I am not just focusing on the negative comments. I am focusing on the harsh and sometimes hard-line positive ones as well. Have love for the group and the music. I do. But temper that love with some of the harsh reality that we all try to escape. They are human and with humans, they can fail. If you get angry at someone who says something less than glowing and is not a personal attack on the women, then you need to look at yourself as well as the people who are saying the negative and put it in perspective. Look at it objectively. Make sure that for your own health that this is not an obsession. As "The Quiet Man" said "However, discussion of choice of music, arrangements, performance details, and so on, as long as it’s done in a non-cruel manner, I think is fair game and in fact healthy."

- thedoctor

[The Quiet Man]

Ah, therein lies the issue that led to the problems at the other site that will remain nameless.  It's easy to get caught up in the image vs. the artist as a person.  It's easy to see the ladies on stage singing and dancing and being angelic, or even to meet them briefly at a meet and greet or party where they are certain to be on their best behavior and come away thinking they are perfect or more than mortal.  They aren't.  They're performers who know how to perform, and might even be stage-managed a little to give that perfect image.  In the end they're people, though, and should be treated as such, lest this community fall into the trap of worshipping its objects to the point of becoming irrational and/or toxic.  I've been there and done that, and I must reluctantly but emphatically say that something has gone wrong in a forum where members are threatening each other with bodily harm or hurling nasty all-caps posts at anyone who even suggests that the performer or performers might have had an off night, or that this choice of music was not such a great one, or who is unhappy over perceived broken promises.  Not that that has happened here, it's the moderators' job to prevent that, but that's where you end up if you let anger insults, and even misplaced loyalty go unchecked. 

Frankly, I think we don't do the performers any favors by being hyper-loyal to the point of believing they can do no wrong.  The world at large doesn't eat sleep and breathe a particular performer.  Performers need to appeal to the world at large, not just their core fans, just like a political party needs to appeal to the whole nation, not just the base.  Hyper-loyal or intense fans who get angry or defensive when someone suggests their fave performer isn't perfect can be off-putting to the mainstream.  If someone says that the mix of songs is getting too poppy for the "Celtic" moniker or that this choreography might not work with that song, then that's probably something that should be discussed in a civil manner.  If someone pokes un-funny fun at the act it should probably be ignored, people like that tend to go away once they see they can't push buttons, and I'd hate to think the members of the act can't laugh at themselves when it swarranted.  It's only when things get cruel or touch certain hot-button issues that are salacious and personal (Chloe's weight, Mairead's age, etc.) that the designated leaders of this site need to step in, and it's probably better that they do it behind the scenes and swiftly, rather than engage in a prolonged fight in a thread that the whole world can read.                 

[thedoctor]

The Quiet Man,

You are wise. I could not have said what you said better myself. I know, I tried. I was not able to express it as well. You said a lot of things to keep in mind.

-thedoctor

[bot1tle]

I love all the girls...... don't change any of you....

[Emily!]

Ask me questions or say something like Rich said in response to the person who thought Mairead show a little too much leg. He said something like "Opinion noted but Mairead is 100% flesh and blood human and she would not wear anything she felt was inappropriate." Well done!!!! Excellent way of handling it. He gave the person a reason and did not make the person feel bad. Some of the responses were a bit harsh. Maybe the person comes from  a different generation or has a religious view or something. Ask questions or give a reason. Educate people.

I responded to that question. I think people who did respond to it, whether or not you felt their response was "harsh," were just expressing their own opinions. Maybe some thought MY response was harsh, but it was my opinion that her dress was beautiful, it wasn't at all inappropriate and that women should be able to show off their legs if they want to. That's my opinion, and I'm entitled to express it, as are the other people who responded to that question. Just as he was entitled to ask it to begin with, everyone else was entitled to answer with their take on the matter.

Secondly, the issue of Mairead's dress being inappropriate and whether or not the lighting is bad is like comparing apples to oranges. Mairead "showing too much leg" is a WAY more sensitive topic, not just because it's about Mairead, but really it's about women in general. Can you really expect that people wouldn't get a little touchy over it? 

[OldFatGuy]

Hey, Peter!  Ya had no idea what you were starting, did ya?

[thedoctor]

Was that a hint to end this?

[OldFatGuy]

Was that a hint to end this?

Nah.  As long as it remains civil and constructive, I have no problem with it.  Some of it is pretty interesting, and I'd like to think CW Ltd is paying attention.  But some of it also sounds like a bunch of people looking for new ways to say the same thing.

[Western_Rose]

Where exactly have people stated such negative comments about SFTH on this forum? Sure I've seen people saying they didn't like SFTH as much as the other DVDs I was one of them, it should have been expected that some people would get disappointed when something is advertised as the most spectacular CW show to date you have to expect discontentment because we all have our own idea what the most spectacular show CW is and naturally we had the reviews of the attendees to tell us what the show was like beforehand. But someone who was present at the show and someone viewing the show from the TV are two different things. Things are lost, like the fireworks for instance they hardly (in my opinion mind you) contributed to the show when seen on TV but I bet that would be totally different for someone at the live show. Now as for this "the days when CW could do no wrong" business I feel it is still going on in a more subdued way but I'm very happy to see people here that admit CW are humans, back in 2008 it was kind of ridiculous.

So this is jsut my 2 cents please don't eat me for it 

P.S Rich I don't really get what you mean about back in 2006 we were shuddering about a new set list, considering almost all of the ANJ songs were from the Celtic Woman: The Show tour. In fact, alot of people were complaining about CW withdrawals because they wanted to hear the new stuff so much. I for one was dying to hear them, waiting for ANJ was a killer wait 

[hesprit]

*LOL*  No, Rich, I didn't, but I have to agree, the discussions are, at least, getting interesting!  Even better, the discussions are, for the most part, thought out and expressive, and that's a good thing.  I'll admit I was a little worried about posting at all .. I actually thought about it for several days before making the original post, and I was rethinking it a bit before my later post.  Ultimately, I'm okay with it and glad to see it developing.

[zankoku]

I always wonder how one can complain that a lady shows too much leg. Ever been to the beach or swimming pool?

I think are very appropriate for the type of activity she does. If she tried to dance around wearing the costumes that the others wear, she really would fly, like right into the front row.

None of the ladies have dressed inappropriately  on or off the stage from what I can see.

Are they perfect? No. They are human  and I will bet that if you tick them off, you will find teh old Irish temper coming out.

Jim

Jim

[OldFatGuy]

P.S Rich I don't really get what you mean about back in 2006 we were shuddering about a new set list, considering almost all of the ANJ songs were from the Celtic Woman: The Show tour. In fact, alot of people were complaining about CW withdrawals because they wanted to hear the new stuff so much. I for one was dying to hear them, waiting for ANJ was a killer wait 

Speaking from my own experience, I was disappointed that The Soft Goodbye and Harry's Game weren't included in ANJ.  Those are still two of my favorite songs.  My point was simply that - as soon as you change something - not everyone is going to be blissfully happy with all the changes.  I adore Fields of Gold.  The Moon's a Harsh Mistress will grow on me.  But I'm sure gonna miss The Voice.  I love Alex, as a person and as a performer, but I sure miss Órlagh.  And the "screaming and weeping and gnashing of teeth" I mentioned was related to the personnel changes, not the songs.

[thedoctor]

"Secondly, the issue of Mairead's dress being inappropriate and whether or not the lighting is bad is like comparing apples to oranges. Mairead "showing too much leg" is a WAY more sensitive topic, not just because it's about Mairead, but really it's about women in general. Can you really expect that people wouldn't get a little touchy over it? "

I dont mean for people to debate what was actually said in that thread here but merely use it as an example.

Given these points:
1) It is not the topic of what is said in the threads but how people respond to them when they have a difference of opinion is what is being focused on
2) Given point 1, then it is comparing apples to apples

I ask this seriously to anyone: When someone says something you do not agree with, do you ask why they think that way?