What has happened to us?

[Jeanine]

You guys, lets get back on track, okay?  The point is that we all have our preferences.  There is nothing wrong with sharing your preferences on this forum as long as it meets these characteristics:

1. It is polite and respectful, not only of the girls and CW Ltd., but also of the other members of this forum
2. It does not attack or criticize the girls or CW Ltd. personally
3. It does not attack or criticize the other members of this forum personally

If it goes against those and any other guidelines that I haven't mentioned, then there is a problem and the administrators and moderators will step in and take whatever action is deemed appropriate.

Anyway, back to the original discussion.

[thedoctor]

Emily,

I am not saying that you responded the wrong way. You responded with your opinion. I dont have a problem with your opinion and in fact I agree with it. Now given that, the point of what I am trying to say is being missed completely.

My previous statement as to the women farding, is very pertinent to my point and this thread. Farding is something women have done for a very long time and I want to see how people react to talking about women and the girls of Celtic Woman farding. Yes, I said that they fard.

It goes to show that somethings may not mean what they are perceived as. So sometimes before an opinion is given in response to something, that it is BETTER  to find out that it is truely what they mean and not misunderstood. Yes, there is NO RULE saying you have to but it can be a good tool to further and better communicate with people when there is a better understanding of the topic at hand.

And just in case some of you may have gotten angry over the statement that women of Celtic Woman fard, the definition of "fard" is to apply makeup but there might have been people who have reported it because they may have thought I was saying something else. What I said was not harmful or insulting to them but may have been misunderstood. That is what I am trying to say. That is why sometimes we need to ask "why"  so we are clear as to what someone means.

I am not denying anyone's right to an opinion but I am saying that it is better to use caution sometimes to make sure that a person is actually saying what it is they are saying and not misunderstood. If they are being mean and insulting then take action. Yes somethings are obvious and do not need clarification.

-thedoctor

[Old Guy]

There was a thread a while back, titled something like “A difficult question to ask” that was about songs that people might not like as much as others. Someone (or more likely a few people) commented that they liked all of the songs. My somewhat contrarian post in that thread was that, given the wide variety of music they perform, it’s more likely that some people wouldn’t like some songs than that everyone would like them all. I have pretty eclectic tastes in music and like quite a wide variety, but even I have some that I don’t really care for.

I think it’s healthy to point out what we like and don’t like and, of course, we won’t all agree. We are all unique individuals and it’s perfectly normal to disagree on some things. As long as we do it respectfully, it’s a good thing. This forum is one means to convey our thoughts about performances to CW. To be less than honest would be a doing them a disservice.

If CW doesn’t try new things, they stagnate and die professionally. When they try new things, they won’t please all of us and they NEED to know what works and what doesn’t. That’s the only way they can continue to improve and grow.

I’ve never met any of the CW performers and don’t know that this applies to any of them individually, but performers, as a group, tend to be somewhat insecure. Their feelings can be hurt easily and unintentionally. If you have a criticism, please be gentle and carefully consider how you phrase it. And be courteous and tactful with those who have differing opinions.

Gary

[Emily!]

Anyway, I'm done with this thread.

There's no use in stating the same thing over and over, which is that I have a right to state my opinion, and I don't feel like I need to hold everyone's hands and sing Kumbaya and ask why they think the way they do. I can say what I think, and everyone else can too and I don't see anything rude or ignorant about doing that.

But I've said that about 90000 times at this point, and we're all kind of going around in circles. Some of us are saying the same thing over and over just in a different way, so with that said, I'm done. I have studying to do.

[Kelli]

I have followed this discussion with great interest.  I'd like to thank Peter for starting it.  I'd also like to thank most of you for responding with well thought out, insightful posts.

I'd like to sum up what I believe was Peter's original thought, echoed repeatedly (please correct me if I've misunderstood, folks):  hearing and giving opinions regarding Celtic Woman is one of the main reasons we are here.  It is healthy, and likely even helpful.  BUT, in accordance with our rules here it must be done respectfully!  It is perfectly acceptable to prefer one soloist or one DVD over the other, but please don't disrespectfully assume you know exactly why others agree or disagree with you.  Saying that CW Ltd "had better" do something in my mind leaves me asking, "or what?"

There is a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes, and each day admins and mods make judgement calls.  Trust me, we can handle being baited and tested, though I personally don't see the need for it.

I would love to see this discussion continue if new thoughts can be contributed.

[bobh56]

I, too, have been following this thread since it started, and have noticed that most (if not all) of the posts are saying pretty much the same thing - We love Celtic Woman, but not everything they do is always to our personal liking.  Well, to that I say, so be it.  Nevertheless, and a the risk of incurring the wrath of Kelli (that is meant as a joke), I’d like to add my two (perhaps more) cents.  

Like several of the previous commenters, although I have been (and am) a fan of many things in my life (e.g., sports teams, TV shows, and music groups), and have joined other web forums on occasion, until CW came along, and I discovered CWF, I was not an active follower of any of those things.  I’m very pleased that CW and the CWF changed my mind on that – at least as far as CW is concerned.  

With regard to CW itself, while their music clearly is one of the things that draws me, it has to be something more that has made me a borderline groupie because many of the groups that I like make wonderful music.  I believe the other reason I so like/love CW is their willingness to share parts of themselves.  As a result, despite the fact that I have not yet had the pleasure of meeting any of the Ladies personally, I genuinely like them all as people, and those feelings are not confined to just the Ladies; the band and choir members are in there, too.  

I joined the CWF (which I discovered by accident) in June 2008.  I didn’t, however, make my first post until a year later.  I waited (some refer to this practice as lurking) until I was comfortable with the group, and (more importantly) how it’s run.  Throughout that waiting period, and since becoming active, I have been very impressed by the intelligence, maturity, respectfulness, and reasonableness of my Fellow Forumites.  And, at the risk of seeming sycophantic, Rich and the other CWF Moderators are second to none, and deserve all the praise and thanks we can offer.

As stated in this thread, change, while not always welcome, is inevitable – particularly in the music industry.  (Remember:  Bob Dylan did an album of gospel songs, which was pretty good; Mark O’Connor did a Jazz album; Sting just released a Holiday (my word not his) album; and the Grateful Dead went disco.)  Speaking for myself, I love the changes that have occurred in CW – indeed, I look forward to them.  This isn’t to imply that I’m always happy about the various comings and goings.  Like the rest of you, I have my favorites, but I also treasure the new performers and material because: 1) they’re outstanding; and, 2) as such, my lists of favorites continue to grow.  

As far as giving advice to CW, Ltd. about how to conduct its business, it’s fair to say that my musical ability would probably rank about as high as the skill level on the slopes of the best downhill skier in Cuba.  That said, just as I would hope they won’t try and tell me how to evaluate environmental impacts (my line of work), I will refrain from giving them advice about musical arrangements, dresses, lighting, pyrotechnics, etc.  I trust David, the Ladies, and CW, Ltd. to make those decisions; they’ve done an excellent job so far.

So, in closing, I’d just like to reiterate that I intend to continue to enjoy CW and the CWF for many years to come.

More importantly, here’s wishing the CW Family and all my Fellow Forumites a blessed, joyous, and safe Holiday Season and New Year.  

Bob

[thedoctor]

I am going to say that I am done here as well. My intention was not to seem like I was saying the samething over and over but more to convey a subtlety in my point that was either not understood or just lost in my way of explaining it. I do not know what people are thinking, I can only understand what is written. And the subtlety that I was referring to was not touched on in a manner that made it clear as to what I was saying. So, as to not anger anyone or seem like a broken record, I  am going to bow out of the discussion.

-thedoctor

[shankdee]

       To bobH56. .
Your wonderful Post resonates with beauty and love for the C W phenomenon....that we all love and share,,,from Skopje, to Poland, to Taiwan, to Okinawa, to Mexico, to Canada, to South America, to Germany, to the U K, to Ireland, to Japan
we  are lights shining little rays of C W wonderment...all over the world, and of course the 50 states ' great cities and towns.....how fortunate we are to even have this in our lifetimes...young or old.....male...and female...musicians...or listeners...I continue to enjoy the FORUM for just such posts as yours...Change is certainly inevitable as you have stated, so here's hoping we have the Grace and understanding to accept it when it does occur....

I finally had my first REAL
C W dream..and I dreamed somehow I was invited back stage...and Lisa motioned for me to sit next to her...She said
she was hungry and someone brought her a snack which she shared with me...then she said, I'll be back, I have to go
check on my children...there were people milling about,  she came back and I started wondering when she was going to leave backstage and go out front and sing...she kept sitting there smiling and joking with everyone....so as
you said one of the most noted things about them is how willing they are to meet their fans and to share themselves
with the fans..each and everyone of them is approachable, cordial, funny, gracious and that is what is so
endearing about them...so that translated into the dream I imagine....

I plan to buy some C W DVDs and C Ds to send to the troops for Christmas...and some for others who may not own any...
Everytime I hear about someone being stressed...I wonder WHY on earth do they NOT have some C W in their lives.
One of my friend's sons is an engineer for G E...in a highly stressed job...projects deadlines loom, and sometimes he is' so wound up he cannot sleep or eat....NOW, that calls for some C W and she said, YES, she will listen to them and she will make sure he gets some of their music also..Thanks again for that wonderful, thoughtful Post... shankdee



[b]C W FOREVER *** CW FOREVER***C W FOREVER *** CW FOREVER***C W FOREVER *** CW FOREVER***C W FOREVER *** [/b]

[The Leprechaun]

Okay, I have only read the first page of posts so hopefully I'm not asking anything that has been answered. Why did they leave out You'll Be In My Heart? I noticed when I watched my tape of it when it went strange, but that could have just been a temporary problem with the station. Did they think it could be better? I don't know for sure but it might have been better at the live show I saw. Will it be on later DVDs? Also, when was the blackout during the performance?

People are pretty much right. I would never say here who my least favorite member is (who, by the way, I still love dearly and sometimes wonder why I have favorites). I have started two threads that I knew I probably shouldn't while I was making them. It was a stupid thing for me to do and I'll email Rich if I have any questions of a thread that I might want to start.

At least we are arguing that there should be MORE of members we don't feel that are being shown enough. If we were arguing for seeing LESS of a certain member, that would be bad.

[aislin]

Okay, I have only read the first page of posts so hopefully I'm not asking anything that has been answered. Why did they leave out You'll Be In My Heart? I noticed when I watched my tape of it when it went strange, but that could have just been a temporary problem with the station. Did they think it could be better? I don't know for sure but it might have been better at the live show I saw. Will it be on later DVDs? Also, when was the blackout during the performance?

Ok, that's kinda off topic but, we don't know about YBIMH, we'll just have to wait and see. My understanding is that a generator blew during the performance but they just fixed it and started up again.

To get back on topic, if we can't play nice with each other I'll lock the thread. As Kelli said above, this has been an interesting thread so far and I hate to have to shut it down.

aislin

[The Quiet Man]

Oh, I don't think we're there yet.  My point in joining this discussion was to point out some pitfalls that have led to issues in other forums of this nature.  So far we haven't hit any of them to the point of it becoming a problem.  We should all be ok as long as we "stay in our lanes." 

[Life is Great!]

Moderating this forum is a difficult task, and that's the reason why we are so careful and selective about choosing moderators.  We allow some posts that might be seen as critical, while editing or deleting others.  But there's a method to our madness.

Some of our members have posted their issues with the actual presentation of the CW show; lighting, staging, gowns, song selection, solos or group numbers that were omitted (or included), etc.  As long as they are respectful, we believe CW has a right to hear these opinions.  They're in business to appeal to their fan base, and we represent that fan base.  What better place is there than a large fan forum for CW Ltd to tune in and get honest feedback from their paying clientele?  If anything, I feel they are almost obligated to take such criticism seriously.

But we draw the line at posts that are openly critical of the performers themselves.  They - the soloists, choir members and musicians - do read our posts, and they are human.  On more than one occasion I've learned that a performer's feelings were hurt by something that was said here.  We walk a fine line.  The producers can add a new solo if they want; it's far more difficult for the soloist to change her voice or her personality.  They are individuals with different talents and styles, and none of them are ever going to please every fan every night.  It's a matter of taste.  If you want to say that you enjoy Dougie MacLean's performance of Caledonia more than Lisa's, that's fine.  But if you want to say that Lisa doesn't have a good voice or stage presence, that's over the line and will probably be edited or removed.

Sometimes I miss the days when we were a small, rather intimate collection of a couple of hundred rabid fans and CW could do no wrong.  We are now a large and growing global community, and there are bound to be some wildly divergent opinions in a "group" with over 1800 members.  Originally, we had only the Helix concert and the first five soloists.  We loved the show and worshipped the girls.  Then along came ANJ and, for the first time, we had that dreaded word - change.  The set list changed.  Hayley was in, then she was out.  Méav was in, then she was out.  And there was much screaming and weeping and gnashing of teeth.  Now we've seen new songs, new gowns, new staging and *shudder* new performers.  Celtic Woman is a victim of their own success.  In order to pay their bills, they've had to add new songs and remove some of our old favorites.  They've had to replace some people who have chosen to go in a new direction.  As a result, they've given us a basis for comparison that we didn't have before.  And not all comparisons are going to be favorable.  That's life.

So here's your ground rule.  If you feel the need to post some constructive criticism about the CW production, we will probably allow it (as long as it's truly respectful and relevant; when in doubt, send one of us a PM).  But if you go after one of the girls - Alex, Chloë, Deirdre, Hayley, Lisa, Lynn, Máiréad, Méav and Órlagh - you are treading on very thin ice.  They are like family to us, and we will protect them like a mama lion protects her cubs.

Sorry if I rambled.  But Peter's candid and insightful post gave me a chance to air a few things I've had on my mind.  Thanks for reading.

Rich

off topic p.s.  If you feel your constitutional rights have been violated in any way - you signed away those rights when you agreed to be bound by our membership rules.  This forum is privately owned and administered, and you do not have the right to say anything you want, either in posts or in the chat room.

Rich, thanks for all you do and what you said here. And with all the input here, I really can't wait to see the new DVD!