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Author Topic: Celtic Woman Destiny nominated for a Grammy!  (Read 10771 times)
CWazyTom
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« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2016, 08:17PM »

My Analysis of the Grammy Nomination and their Chances

Let me start by saying that some of the things I'm going to say are going to offend people. I promise I won't say anything bad about Celtic Woman because I have nothing of the sort to say. I love them like few other things in this world. But the voting is pretty beyond our control as fans and regarding the process, I have some things to say that are going to be a bit negative. I apologize for that, but I feel there are things that need to be said and I'd appreciate your opinion on these things too. What good are opinions anyhow if they're not shared.

Here we go...

We of course all know that Destiny (and Celtic Woman in general) has no comparison and that they should have been nominated and won many times by now.

I rarely watch the Grammy's (and World Music Albums is likely to be on the pre-show, which hopefully will be online, before the main broadcast). But if it's anything like other award shows of note, the people doing the voting often have a different perception of things than the fans do.

Now, I don't doubt that the members of the Recording Academy, for the most part, know their stuff and are more knowledgeable about music in general than general audience members. Some may not necessarily know or care about the musicians or music they're voting for though.

Here's one thing that concerns me:

Members are encouraged, but not required, to vote only in their fields of expertise.

So basically, someone that knows nothing about Celtic Woman or World Music can vote in that category if they feel like it.

Here's another head-scratcher and cause for concern:

Academy members are required to vote based upon quality alone, and not to be influenced by sales, chart performance, personal friendships, regional preferences or company loyalty.

So if that's the case, how in the world has Celtic Woman not even been nominated, much less won, until now? They're clearly not on the same wavelength as Celtic Woman fans have been for the past 12 years.

So what was different about Destiny? Well, it was certainly a different sound than they've attempted before. I loved it (because of the music but also for personal reasons), but it was very different. The girls say it's because the album was more traditional and Irish. That's definitely true about the album. Perhaps the Recording Academy didn't give earlier Celtic Woman albums due respect because they didn't feel it qualified as "World Music" ... that is was too Americanized or something. Maybe they were expecting a more Irish sound and felt it didn't qualify as good enough Irish music. But if that's the case, they would be violating their principal of quality. Even if they didn't like the style of music (mindboggling that that could be the case), how could the phenomenal quality of the vocals and Mairead's sensational fiddling not meet their standard for quality? Other good music out there in the category? Sure? For 11 straight years they weren't in the top 5 according to the Recording Academy? No, there's no possible way.

Maybe one could argue that not enough people knew about Celtic Woman and their music ... that other more popular / mainstream / well-known musicians and groups drew more attention and votes. I suppose, but if so, that exposes a bit of a problem, because they're not supposed to be voting based on popularity ... ONLY quality.

Celtic Woman has a worldwide audience, but their largest audience is in North America. I'm sure a lot of the voters in the Recording Academy are not. They may value certain things that we don't.

Is this a "weaker field" than usual in the World Music category? I can't really comment on that since I haven't looked into the past nominees at all and don't intend to invest a lot of time in doing so.

So if their music qualified as World Music and clearly was of exceptional (unmatched) quality, how did they not get nominated before this? If someone can offer any sort of plausible explanation, I'd love to hear it.

I haven't listened to all the nominees yet, but I have heard this: Sing Me Home — Yo-Yo Ma & The Silk Road Ensemble (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uymTSOYYYC0&authuser=0). It is nice (not Celtic Woman nice in my opinion) but it has the kind of international assortment of musicians, unusual instruments that might win votes (even though they're supposed to be voting on quality alone).

Based on the above, I'd say there are two possibilities:
- They're not nominating / voting based on quality (ie. a systemic problem)
- They really didn't enjoy the previous albums as much as we did

Celtic Woman winning a Grammy would be a dream come true for me and I suspect for pretty much every passionate Celtic Woman fan. I know in my heart they deserve to win and I want it so badly for everyone that's been in Celtic Woman over the years and for us as fans. I want it so desperately for Mairead.

But I'd caution anyone from getting too optimistic. For one thing, we Celtic Woman fans are extremely passionate. Many of us care so deeply that getting all excited, then having our hopes dashed would be emotionally devastating. Love can make us vulnerable and the things we love the most can also hurt us the most.

Honestly, and I'm not just saying this to control expectations, I won't be at all shocked if one of the other nominees wins. In fact, I'll go so far as to say I would be stunned (overjoyed, but very surprised) if Celtic Woman does win ... and I love them so much it hurts me to say it (believe me it hurts).

But, I have faith in the quality of their music, so with regards to how the vote will go down, here's to hoping I'm wrong. Wink

With that rant out of the way, here's how I feel about the Grammy nomination:

To Mairead, the current performers in Celtic Woman, and all the other wonderful ladies we've been so very blessed to enjoy in Celtic Woman ... to all the band and choir members, all the crew and everyone else that made Destiny possible and all the other wonderful music over the past 12+ years, congratulations on your nomination. There is no one in this world that deserves this honor more than you. I absolutely loved Destiny. There's not many people that know the story, but Destiny honestly changed my life. To me, no matter what happens at the Grammy awards, you will always be the best. Thank you Celtic Woman, from the bottom of my heart.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 11:41PM by CWazyTom » Logged

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mattycakes
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« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2016, 09:27PM »

Well there's actually a pretty simple reason, in my opinion.

The Recording Academy is much like the Motion Picture Academy insofar as only members are nominated. Now! In order to become a member, one must be invited to join in. I have no knowledge of membership criteria or any of that nonsense but I do know that Celtic Woman did not become a member of the Recording Academy until late 2012 (the release of HFC on CD). How do I know this? Because Mairead N, Chloe, Lisa L, and Susan were all talking about it on social media and gave an interview about their acceptance into the Academy right before the 2012 Symphony Tour. Please do not ask me to find it because that was 4 Years ago and I couldn't even begin to know where to look.

With all that said, the only albums Celtic Woman had that could've been nominated are: HFC (possibly, seeing as this was released the same year they were invited in) which wouldn't have won because Christmas albums basically never win; Emerald which I don't think was nominated mostly because it had no new material on it and because the music was all the tour versions which are almost always watered-down versions of their songs; Oh Christmas Tree, which is a companion to HFC; Decade and Solo were both compilation albums released for the fans; and lastly Destiny.

Destiny is the first completely new album since Believe. And yes. It is more Celtic and more Irish than previoous ones. But I think that the lineup of soloists for this album also had a lot to do with it. Think about it. The fantastic violinist that is Mairead Nesbitt. The adult contemporary and pop style, theatrically trained soprano that is Susan. The classically trained, soaring soprano that is Mairead C. And then the haunting, traditional alto that is Eabha. And Eabha's singing style is so inherently Irish. And the vocal Harmony's between these three singers hasn't been seen in CW since Orla left. It gives them the beautiful harmonies that CW is known for!

That's just my 2 cents. I'll leave it here for you guys! Lol!
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« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2016, 09:39PM »

I hope CW wins a Grammy.  They deserve it as much as anyone.
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CWazyTom
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« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2016, 10:12PM »

Well there's actually a pretty simple reason, in my opinion.

The Recording Academy is much like the Motion Picture Academy insofar as only members are nominated. Now! In order to become a member, one must be invited to join in. I have no knowledge of membership criteria or any of that nonsense but I do know that Celtic Woman did not become a member of the Recording Academy until late 2012 (the release of HFC on CD). How do I know this? Because Mairead N, Chloe, Lisa L, and Susan were all talking about it on social media and gave an interview about their acceptance into the Academy right before the 2012 Symphony Tour. Please do not ask me to find it because that was 4 Years ago and I couldn't even begin to know where to look.

With all that said, the only albums Celtic Woman had that could've been nominated are: HFC (possibly, seeing as this was released the same year they were invited in) which wouldn't have won because Christmas albums basically never win; Emerald which I don't think was nominated mostly because it had no new material on it and because the music was all the tour versions which are almost always watered-down versions of their songs; Oh Christmas Tree, which is a companion to HFC; Decade and Solo were both compilation albums released for the fans; and lastly Destiny.

Destiny is the first completely new album since Believe. And yes. It is more Celtic and more Irish than previoous ones. But I think that the lineup of soloists for this album also had a lot to do with it. Think about it. The fantastic violinist that is Mairead Nesbitt. The adult contemporary and pop style, theatrically trained soprano that is Susan. The classically trained, soaring soprano that is Mairead C. And then the haunting, traditional alto that is Eabha. And Eabha's singing style is so inherently Irish. And the vocal Harmony's between these three singers hasn't been seen in CW since Orla left. It gives them the beautiful harmonies that CW is known for!

That's just my 2 cents. I'll leave it here for you guys! Lol!

Wow, this is actually really informative. I did not know that. That is quite possibly the best explanation I could have hoped for.

Thank you!

I can't remember if you post on the other forms often (Susan, MC, Eabha, Tara, Mairead Nesbitt, etc.). If you don't venture over there often, do you mind if I share your insight over on the other forums?

I'll try to hunt down that post.
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mattycakes
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« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2016, 11:00PM »

Well there's actually a pretty simple reason, in my opinion.

The Recording Academy is much like the Motion Picture Academy insofar as only members are nominated. Now! In order to become a member, one must be invited to join in. I have no knowledge of membership criteria or any of that nonsense but I do know that Celtic Woman did not become a member of the Recording Academy until late 2012 (the release of HFC on CD). How do I know this? Because Mairead N, Chloe, Lisa L, and Susan were all talking about it on social media and gave an interview about their acceptance into the Academy right before the 2012 Symphony Tour. Please do not ask me to find it because that was 4 Years ago and I couldn't even begin to know where to look.

With all that said, the only albums Celtic Woman had that could've been nominated are: HFC (possibly, seeing as this was released the same year they were invited in) which wouldn't have won because Christmas albums basically never win; Emerald which I don't think was nominated mostly because it had no new material on it and because the music was all the tour versions which are almost always watered-down versions of their songs; Oh Christmas Tree, which is a companion to HFC; Decade and Solo were both compilation albums released for the fans; and lastly Destiny.

Destiny is the first completely new album since Believe. And yes. It is more Celtic and more Irish than previoous ones. But I think that the lineup of soloists for this album also had a lot to do with it. Think about it. The fantastic violinist that is Mairead Nesbitt. The adult contemporary and pop style, theatrically trained soprano that is Susan. The classically trained, soaring soprano that is Mairead C. And then the haunting, traditional alto that is Eabha. And Eabha's singing style is so inherently Irish. And the vocal Harmony's between these three singers hasn't been seen in CW since Orla left. It gives them the beautiful harmonies that CW is known for!

That's just my 2 cents. I'll leave it here for you guys! Lol!

Wow, this is actually really informative. I did not know that. That is quite possibly the best explanation I could have hoped for.

Thank you!

I can't remember if you post on the other forms often (Susan, MC, Eabha, Tara, Mairead Nesbitt, etc.). If you don't venture over there often, do you mind if I share your insight over on the other forums?

I'll try to hunt down that post.
Go for it!

After that post, I did try to find the interview. I did find it, but it was only listed as available using an outdated and no longer available video player so I couldn't watch it. Maybe it's somewhere in the bowels of YouTube?
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CWazyTom
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« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2016, 11:14PM »

Lol. I found the video of Celtic Woman AT the Recording Academy doing an interview (https://www.grammy.com/videos/celtic-woman), but unless I spaced out, this isn't the one where they mentioned about becoming members. So there must be another one.

This one is a bit tricky to find I guess. So far, I've tried searching:
- Google
- CW Forum
- The forums for Susan, Mairead Nesbitt, and Chloe
- Twitter (hard to search by date, but I tried anyways)
- Facebook (tried filtering by 2012, Celtic Woman Tour, each of the girls in CW at the time, even tried CW Fan Page)
- YouTube ... still looking (might be on a different video sharing but I'm pretty sure YouTube was the dominant service well before 2012)
- Using different aliases of the Recording Academy (ie. Academy, NARAS,  National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences, National Academy, Academy of Recording...)

My goodness, I know it must be there somewhere, but this one may take some work. Lol. Unless someone can figure out what combo of the above I forgot to try or someplace else I could look.

This is like the research for the Member Timeline all over again. Lol!
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« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2016, 07:33PM »

  Let's  not  forget  that  if  it  were  not  for  Meav's  input  as  creative  consultant (  e.g.  injecting  more  Celticnes)  our  special  ladies  would  still  be  off  the  Grammy  radar.   Cool  And  i  agree  ...  MC  is  (ALMOST)  as  soaring  as  Meav- no  one  quite  compares  in  that  category.   Smiley
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CWazyTom
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« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2016, 08:19PM »

  Let's  not  forget  that  if  it  were  not  for  Meav's  input  as  creative  consultant (  e.g.  injecting  more  Celticnes)  our  special  ladies  would  still  be  off  the  Grammy  radar.   Cool  And  i  agree  ...  MC  is  (ALMOST)  as  soaring  as  Meav- no  one  quite  compares  in  that  category.   Smiley

I say they're both being equally perfect on account there being no known way to quantify how amazing they are.

But yes, Meav can sing challenging things in beautiful ways that nobody else can.
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« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2016, 01:07PM »

Lol. I found the video of Celtic Woman AT the Recording Academy doing an interview (https://www.grammy.com/videos/celtic-woman), but unless I spaced out, this isn't the one where they mentioned about becoming members. So there must be another one.

This one is a bit tricky to find I guess. So far, I've tried searching:
- Google
- CW Forum
- The forums for Susan, Mairead Nesbitt, and Chloe
- Twitter (hard to search by date, but I tried anyways)
- Facebook (tried filtering by 2012, Celtic Woman Tour, each of the girls in CW at the time, even tried CW Fan Page)
- YouTube ... still looking (might be on a different video sharing but I'm pretty sure YouTube was the dominant service well before 2012)
- Using different aliases of the Recording Academy (ie. Academy, NARAS,  National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences, National Academy, Academy of Recording...)

My goodness, I know it must be there somewhere, but this one may take some work. Lol. Unless someone can figure out what combo of the above I forgot to try or someplace else I could look.

This is like the research for the Member Timeline all over again. Lol!
I've been looking too and I can't find it either. Maybe I'm wrong but I could've sworn one of the girls said they were invited to the Academy! If it was anywhere, it'd be on Twitter cuz I don't use Facebook.
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CWazyTom
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« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2016, 02:13PM »

Lol. I found the video of Celtic Woman AT the Recording Academy doing an interview (https://www.grammy.com/videos/celtic-woman), but unless I spaced out, this isn't the one where they mentioned about becoming members. So there must be another one.

This one is a bit tricky to find I guess. So far, I've tried searching:
- Google
- CW Forum
- The forums for Susan, Mairead Nesbitt, and Chloe
- Twitter (hard to search by date, but I tried anyways)
- Facebook (tried filtering by 2012, Celtic Woman Tour, each of the girls in CW at the time, even tried CW Fan Page)
- YouTube ... still looking (might be on a different video sharing but I'm pretty sure YouTube was the dominant service well before 2012)
- Using different aliases of the Recording Academy (ie. Academy, NARAS,  National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences, National Academy, Academy of Recording...)

My goodness, I know it must be there somewhere, but this one may take some work. Lol. Unless someone can figure out what combo of the above I forgot to try or someplace else I could look.

This is like the research for the Member Timeline all over again. Lol!
I've been looking too and I can't find it either. Maybe I'm wrong but I could've sworn one of the girls said they were invited to the Academy! If it was anywhere, it'd be on Twitter cuz I don't use Facebook.

I'll have another look on Twitter.

I seem to recall this too, although I didn't use Twitter then, so I'm either imagining I've heard it before or I heard / read it somewhere else (within  the last year).

I had a look on Wikipedia in case it was referenced on the CW page there, but no luck.

The other weird thing is that CW hasn't mentioned it (as far as I know) since they were nominated for a Grammy, even when asked why they hadn't been nominated before.

It seems very plausible though that they weren't eligible in Believe and prior.

I think if I can't find it today, I may ask the girls how long they've been eligible.
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« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2017, 07:38PM »

Now here's a fun little question!

If Celtic Woman got to perform 1 song from Destiny at the Grammys (as unlikely as that may be) what song would you want them to perform?

Also, do you think Mairead Nesbitt would go to the Grammys with the current girls?

Mairead Nesbitt will indeed go to the Grammy Awards!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BQL7CjLg_ci/

Posted Feb 6, 2017:
__hibernia__Look what's after arriving from the beautiful @steviecolemanclothing for me for the @recordingacademy weekend with @celticwomanofficial
5 bags of amazingness! Thank you so much Stephen & Leanne!
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« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2017, 07:58PM »

Now here's a fun little question!

If Celtic Woman got to perform 1 song from Destiny at the Grammys (as unlikely as that may be) what song would you want them to perform?

Also, do you think Mairead Nesbitt would go to the Grammys with the current girls?

Mairead Nesbitt will indeed go to the Grammy Awards!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BQL7CjLg_ci/

Posted Feb 6, 2017:
__hibernia__Look what's after arriving from the beautiful @steviecolemanclothing for me for the @recordingacademy weekend with @celticwomanofficial
5 bags of amazingness! Thank you so much Stephen & Leanne!

WOW  !    Shocked
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CWazyTom
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« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2017, 01:45PM »

I feel bad for all the previous girls in Celtic Woman that never got to have this wonderful experience at the Grammy Awards.  Cry

Even though only Destiny is nominated, every single album and person that's made this group so special over the years deserves this, because this nomination wouldn't have happened if it weren't for all of them. They're all so amazing!!!  <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

And even though David Downes never got nominated while he was the musical genious behind Celtic Woman, he deserved to get nominated (and to win) as much as anyone. We would have no Celtic Woman if not for his vision, tireless efforts, and boundless talent.
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« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2017, 03:18PM »

O ... M ... G !!!!!!!!!

They're so beautiful!

Celtic Woman on the red carpet at the GRAMMY AWARDS!!!

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« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2017, 03:45PM »

Sometimes I hate being right...  Cry

Oh well.

I'm so proud of them for getting nominated and thankful to the Recording Academy for nominating them.

I think most of us, as passionate and deeply grateful fans, know that our opinions matter the most to us and to the girls. To us, the fans who know them and their music best, they will always be the best in our hearts.

I'm sorry you didn't win, but I'm so happy that you got to enjoy this incredible experience and to take us along for the ride.

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3


My Analysis of the Grammy Nomination and their Chances

Let me start by saying that some of the things I'm going to say are going to offend people. I promise I won't say anything bad about Celtic Woman because I have nothing of the sort to say. I love them like few other things in this world. But the voting is pretty beyond our control as fans and regarding the process, I have some things to say that are going to be a bit negative. I apologize for that, but I feel there are things that need to be said and I'd appreciate your opinion on these things too. What good are opinions anyhow if they're not shared.

Here we go...

We of course all know that Destiny (and Celtic Woman in general) has no comparison and that they should have been nominated and won many times by now.

I rarely watch the Grammy's (and World Music Albums is likely to be on the pre-show, which hopefully will be online, before the main broadcast). But if it's anything like other award shows of note, the people doing the voting often have a different perception of things than the fans do.

Now, I don't doubt that the members of the Recording Academy, for the most part, know their stuff and are more knowledgeable about music in general than general audience members. Some may not necessarily know or care about the musicians or music they're voting for though.

Here's one thing that concerns me:

Members are encouraged, but not required, to vote only in their fields of expertise.

So basically, someone that knows nothing about Celtic Woman or World Music can vote in that category if they feel like it.

Here's another head-scratcher and cause for concern:

Academy members are required to vote based upon quality alone, and not to be influenced by sales, chart performance, personal friendships, regional preferences or company loyalty.

So if that's the case, how in the world has Celtic Woman not even been nominated, much less won, until now? They're clearly not on the same wavelength as Celtic Woman fans have been for the past 12 years.

So what was different about Destiny? Well, it was certainly a different sound than they've attempted before. I loved it (because of the music but also for personal reasons), but it was very different. The girls say it's because the album was more traditional and Irish. That's definitely true about the album. Perhaps the Recording Academy didn't give earlier Celtic Woman albums due respect because they didn't feel it qualified as "World Music" ... that is was too Americanized or something. Maybe they were expecting a more Irish sound and felt it didn't qualify as good enough Irish music. But if that's the case, they would be violating their principal of quality. Even if they didn't like the style of music (mindboggling that that could be the case), how could the phenomenal quality of the vocals and Mairead's sensational fiddling not meet their standard for quality? Other good music out there in the category? Sure? For 11 straight years they weren't in the top 5 according to the Recording Academy? No, there's no possible way.

Maybe one could argue that not enough people knew about Celtic Woman and their music ... that other more popular / mainstream / well-known musicians and groups drew more attention and votes. I suppose, but if so, that exposes a bit of a problem, because they're not supposed to be voting based on popularity ... ONLY quality.

Celtic Woman has a worldwide audience, but their largest audience is in North America. I'm sure a lot of the voters in the Recording Academy are not. They may value certain things that we don't.

Is this a "weaker field" than usual in the World Music category? I can't really comment on that since I haven't looked into the past nominees at all and don't intend to invest a lot of time in doing so.

So if their music qualified as World Music and clearly was of exceptional (unmatched) quality, how did they not get nominated before this? If someone can offer any sort of plausible explanation, I'd love to hear it.

I haven't listened to all the nominees yet, but I have heard this: Sing Me Home — Yo-Yo Ma & The Silk Road Ensemble (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uymTSOYYYC0&authuser=0). It is nice (not Celtic Woman nice in my opinion) but it has the kind of international assortment of musicians, unusual instruments that might win votes (even though they're supposed to be voting on quality alone).

Based on the above, I'd say there are two possibilities:
- They're not nominating / voting based on quality (ie. a systemic problem)
- They really didn't enjoy the previous albums as much as we did

Celtic Woman winning a Grammy would be a dream come true for me and I suspect for pretty much every passionate Celtic Woman fan. I know in my heart they deserve to win and I want it so badly for everyone that's been in Celtic Woman over the years and for us as fans. I want it so desperately for Mairead.

But I'd caution anyone from getting too optimistic. For one thing, we Celtic Woman fans are extremely passionate. Many of us care so deeply that getting all excited, then having our hopes dashed would be emotionally devastating. Love can make us vulnerable and the things we love the most can also hurt us the most.

Honestly, and I'm not just saying this to control expectations, I won't be at all shocked if one of the other nominees wins. In fact, I'll go so far as to say I would be stunned (overjoyed, but very surprised) if Celtic Woman does win ... and I love them so much it hurts me to say it (believe me it hurts).

But, I have faith in the quality of their music, so with regards to how the vote will go down, here's to hoping I'm wrong. Wink

With that rant out of the way, here's how I feel about the Grammy nomination:

To Mairead, the current performers in Celtic Woman, and all the other wonderful ladies we've been so very blessed to enjoy in Celtic Woman ... to all the band and choir members, all the crew and everyone else that made Destiny possible and all the other wonderful music over the past 12+ years, congratulations on your nomination. There is no one in this world that deserves this honor more than you. I absolutely loved Destiny. There's not many people that know the story, but Destiny honestly changed my life. To me, no matter what happens at the Grammy awards, you will always be the best. Thank you Celtic Woman, from the bottom of my heart.
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